View Poll Results: How has THE LAST JEDI affected your view of Luke Skywalker?

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  • Luke is GREATER than ever!

    20 32.79%
  • No change. Luke is Luke, just older.

    9 14.75%
  • Didn't like this take on him at all.

    32 52.46%
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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Then his duty as Sith Lord would have been to kill Vader and replace him with somebody worthy of the title and able to do perform his duty of replacing his Master. Immediately, not 20 years later when you discover Skywalker Jr. is still alive after all.
    There was a lack of qualified candidates. Besides, like all Sith, Palpatine was greedy. When it turned out Anakin/Vader wasn't good enough, Palpatine wanted the one potential candidate who could be better: Luke.

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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Then his duty as Sith Lord would have been to kill Vader and replace him with somebody worthy of the title and able to do perform his duty of replacing his Master. Immediately, not 20 years later when you discover Skywalker Jr. is still alive after all.


    He was a pretty great Darksider, but a really lousy Sith.
    He was the last Sith. He is the guy most responsible for there no longer being any Sith at all. Because he failed to make his apprentice and eventual replacement a priority. His apprentice was too weak, and he knew it and liked it that way. Bad Sith.
    Perhaps, but as the Jedi liked to point out, the Sith way of doing things was ultimately pretty self-defeating. The Sith way could lead to quick and overwhelming victories, but the practitioner might not be around to savor the fruits of those victories...at least not for very long.

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  3. #78
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    There was a lack of qualified candidates. Besides, like all Sith, Palpatine was greedy. When it turned out Anakin/Vader wasn't good enough, Palpatine wanted the one potential candidate who could be better: Luke.

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    Anakin turned out to not be good enough at the end of Episode III.
    Palps wouldn't even know about Vader for almost another 20 years.

    And Palps just wanted to kill Luke. It was Vader who suggested turning him instead.
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  4. #79
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Perhaps, but as the Jedi liked to point out, the Sith way of doing things was ultimately pretty self-defeating. The Sith way could lead to quick and overwhelming victories, but the practitioner might not be around to savor the fruits of those victories...at least not for very long.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Which is exactly why the Sith religion had some pretty stern rules about making sure somebody will be around to savour those fruits.

    While his master was known as Plaguis The Wise (and wasn't it his plan that got the Jedi killed anyway?), if Star Wars were an RPG, Palpatine would have taken Wisdom as a dump stat.
    Last edited by Carabas; 01-09-2018 at 02:57 PM.
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Which is exactly why the Sith religion had some pretty stern rules about making sure somebody will be around to savour those fruits.

    While his master was known as Plaguis The Wise (and wasn't it his plan that got the Jedi killed anyway?), if Star Wars were an RPG, Palpatine would have taken Wisdom as a dump stat.
    The thing with Sidious/Palpatine was that he had played his cards expertly *right* until the end. After a lifetime of playing cleverly, he got stupid once, but that once was enough to bring it all crashing down around him.

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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Kylo took out Snoke not because of any lack of power on Snoke's part but because he utilized the element of surprise. It wasn't necessarily luck, but it was definitely shrewdness. Something virtually no one else but Kylo could have possibly pulled off. If Luke confronted Snoke there would be no surprise. Snoke would clearly know what Luke was there for. Thus Luke wouldn't be able to bisect him without a second thought. Would he win? Would he lose? I don't know. But it wouldn't have been easy, however said confrontation went. What Kylo did is not comparable in any way to any potential Snoke/Luke encounter at any period. Snoke's death as it happens reflects on nothing about Luke's exile, positive or negative.

    Long story short, "context" is the answer to the question "if Kylo can take out Snoke, why can't Luke?"
    Luke had the upper hand since he was the one being hunted and could have set-up a trap. At least he could have tried and taken out all the First Order troops looking for him. Maybe that's not good enough for Yoda, but it's better than deciding to hide on an island instead of trying.

    The problem with the way Kylo is depicted is his power level is all over the place. He gets beat by Rey in TFA (sort of) but there's a lot of reasons that makes sense in the context of the story. He also stops blaster fire in midair. He kills Snoke, but it's in a sneaky, backhanded way that isn't because of how powerful he is. Then in the battle with Praetorian Guards, had Rey not been there, he might have died.

    If Kylo can figure out a way to kill Snoke, there had to be something that Luke could have done because Snoke wasn't some all-powerful being that was impossible to kill.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClanAskani View Post
    Luke had the upper hand since he was the one being hunted and could have set-up a trap. At least he could have tried and taken out all the First Order troops looking for him. Maybe that's not good enough for Yoda, but it's better than deciding to hide on an island instead of trying.

    The problem with the way Kylo is depicted is his power level is all over the place. He gets beat by Rey in TFA (sort of) but there's a lot of reasons that makes sense in the context of the story. He also stops blaster fire in midair. He kills Snoke, but it's in a sneaky, backhanded way that isn't because of how powerful he is. Then in the battle with Praetorian Guards, had Rey not been there, he might have died.

    If Kylo can figure out a way to kill Snoke, there had to be something that Luke could have done because Snoke wasn't some all-powerful being that was impossible to kill.
    Not impossible, but difficult. Kylo had the best chance because he was doing it from an insider position that would not have been available to Luke.

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    The prequels have altered the context of those scenes.
    Whereas before it kind of worked as intended, it now has the guy who only turned to the Dark Side inan attempt to save his family being pushed back to the Light by a Sith jackass who thinks torturing his son to death right in front of him i in any way a good idea.

    Now, if Palpatine had just pulled out his own Lighsaber and quickly decapitated Luke instead of making a whole spectacle of the thing, Vader wouldn't have turned. It's really Palpatine drawing things out that gives Vader the chance to turn.
    I think Luke did succeed in ROTJ, however Vader did have to make the final decision to make it work, e.g. Luke opened the door, but Vader had to choose to step through. I think it can be counted as a success, since Vader wouldn't've been able to open the door himself ("It is too late for me, my son" was his mindset when Luke first tried).


    As far as the question about if Luke could've killed Snoke, probably (at least he would've been capable of it and having a fair shot). However, he wasn't there and Kylo did figure out a sneaky way to do it, so it's kind of a pointless question.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I think Luke did succeed in ROTJ, however Vader did have to make the final decision to make it work, e.g. Luke opened the door, but Vader had to choose to step through. I think it can be counted as a success, since Vader wouldn't've been able to open the door himself ("It is too late for me, my son" was his mindset when Luke first tried).


    As far as the question about if Luke could've killed Snoke, probably (at least he would've been capable of it and having a fair shot). However, he wasn't there and Kylo did figure out a sneaky way to do it, so it's kind of a pointless question.
    One thing that THE LAST JEDI did not give us as viewers is a clear idea of what Luke is physically capable of at that stage of his life. We now know what he can do with Force Astral Projection, and it was impressive, but if he were to engage in more traditional combat using his Force abilities and lightsaber, what was he capable of thirty years after RETURN OF THE JEDI?

    Alas, we will now never know.

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  10. #85
    Incredible Member the nomad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    One thing that THE LAST JEDI did not give us as viewers is a clear idea of what Luke is physically capable of at that stage of his life. We now know what he can do with Force Astral Projection, and it was impressive, but if he were to engage in more traditional combat using his Force abilities and lightsaber, what was he capable of thirty years after RETURN OF THE JEDI?

    Alas, we will now never know.

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    Well.......we kinda do know don't we. Yes he was able to do that force astral projection thing?? or whatever it was but as far as physical/traditional lightsaber battle goes. He got beat by Rey didn't he. They had a brief scuffle and instead of being able to disarm her and explain his position she disarms him and knocks him down and it is then that he gives the audience the exposition.

    I mean if Snoke could disarm Rey easily......surely Luke could do the same, but for some reason he doesn't or he isn't able too. Ugh. I just don't buy it.

    This movie is all over the place with characterization, skill sets, and power sets.

  11. #86
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the nomad View Post
    Well.......we kinda do know don't we. Yes he was able to do that force astral projection thing?? or whatever it was but as far as physical/traditional lightsaber battle goes. He got beat by Rey didn't he. They had a brief scuffle and instead of being able to disarm her and explain his position she disarms him and knocks him down and it is then that he gives the audience the exposition.
    Wait, what?
    I don't remember anything like that being in the movie.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Wait, what?
    I don't remember anything like that being in the movie.
    It's when Rey questions him about his attempt on Ben Solo's life. He initially refuses to answer and then they get in a fight where Luke snatches a staff of something with the Force and they swipe at each other until Rey knocks him on the ground. Then he coughs up his version of events. (How very Rashomon!)
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  13. #88
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    It's when Rey questions him about his attempt on Ben Solo's life. He initially refuses to answer and then they get in a fight where Luke snatches a staff of something with the Force and they swipe at each other until Rey knocks him on the ground. Then he coughs up his version of events. (How very Rashomon!)
    Vague memories are awakening.

    Okay, that was way less dramatic than what The Nomad described.

    The Nomad may also have missed that Luke has gone all-in on non-confrontation and non-violence.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Vague memories are awakening.

    Okay, that was way less dramatic than what The Nomad described.

    The Nomad may also have missed that Luke has gone all-in on non-confrontation and non-violence.
    Plus, I think Luke was trying to "stay off the radar" by cutting himself off from the Force. Outside of that quick Force pull I imagine everything else was non-Force influenced melee combat. I don't really remember him using it before that point. But then, that's just speculation on my behalf.
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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by the nomad View Post
    Well.......we kinda do know don't we. Yes he was able to do that force astral projection thing?? or whatever it was but as far as physical/traditional lightsaber battle goes. He got beat by Rey didn't he. They had a brief scuffle and instead of being able to disarm her and explain his position she disarms him and knocks him down and it is then that he gives the audience the exposition.

    I mean if Snoke could disarm Rey easily......surely Luke could do the same, but for some reason he doesn't or he isn't able too. Ugh. I just don't buy it.

    This movie is all over the place with characterization, skill sets, and power sets.
    Actually, no. They start the fight with staffs. Luke disarms Rey without too much trouble. She then grabs the lightsaber, which turns the tide, given that Luke didn't have one and had cut himself off from the Force.
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