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  1. #181
    Mighty Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Sidenote: I really want a Lois Lane, Selina Kyle, and Steve Trevor miniseries sometime.

    (Even if it's only the three of them sitting around in the Watchtower sometime just sharing a bottle of wine and talking about life with the Trinity. They've got to have interesting perspectives on things.)

  2. #182
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Sidenote: I really want a Lois Lane, Selina Kyle, and Steve Trevor miniseries sometime.

    (Even if it's only the three of them sitting around in the Watchtower sometime just sharing a bottle of wine and talking about life with the Trinity. They've got to have interesting perspectives on things.)
    If only one could pitch the series like Jim Shooter did before he joined Marvel he wrote stories and sent them to DC as a kid.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  3. #183
    Spectacular Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Ah, gotcha - sorry I misinterpreted what you meant.
    No problem - I wasn't terribly clear myself earlier on the job. I think most of us here are in agreement that personality has to go before job or role, anyway.

    Regardless of where he appears, Steve's honor is one of the things about his character that stands out to me and a reason he and Diana are attracted to each other. There's a lot to explore there in a world where deception happens and immorality abounds. There's a lot for him to stand up to and say, "there is a better way to go about this."
    Yeah, one thing that appeas to me with Movie Steve is that he is an honourable man who is good at doing shitty things. He stays in because if he left, the people replacing him would make the situation even worse.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Fun discussion! I'm mainly familiar with the movie, and I think a possible key to what made Steve interesting there was that while he was a man who was a superlative soldier, pilot, officer, and spy, he really wanted to be something else. He may not know what he wanted to be, but he did know he wanted to be something else.

    (This also neatly parallels his team: Chief is a storyteller and guide who became a smuggler and war profiteer, Sameer wanted to be an actor but became a con man and soldier, Charlie had fully suppressed whatever other dreams he had until Diana reminded him that he was something more than a used-up soldier.)

    Come to think of it, that might be why I found Rucka's Rebirth Trevor unappealing. That Trevor was a career soldier, who clearly had chosen to be a warrior. Movie Trevor was a soldier, but never a warrior.

    In today's world, I can see him as a bureaucrat and sometimes operative of ARGUS (picking up the spy part), recruited because of his skills and his connection with Wonder Woman, and staying in because he knows that without him, people like Amanda Waller would take over. Heck, make him a civilian pilot (eg doing a humanitarian flight over a conflict zone) when he ended up at Themyscira.
    Both of them chose to be soldiers. I'm not seeing the difference.

  5. #185
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Both of them chose to be soldiers. I'm not seeing the difference.
    Based on Steve's conversation with Diana in the movie about his past Steve actually wanted to be something else not a soldier but a great loss prompted him to choose to be soldier to help end World War I even if his role would be small. That's powerful stuff right there. Rucka overlooked that detail when he established Steve's past he didn't dig deep enough into Steve's movie counterpart to know what made him work in contrast to Marston vision, as well the marriage obsessed version that came later, and Old Man Trevor. All these iterations had nothing that changed his character into something that was compelling. Oh sure Old Man Trevor had his dead mother but unfortunately his loss didn't workk like how the loss of Thomas and Martha Wayne affected Bruce and Uncle Ben's death affected Peter. Compelling characters have drive and passion none of the previous iterations of Steve had that fire. The comic book Steve does things out of just because that's the kiss of death in characterisation reason is important.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 03-23-2018 at 03:01 AM.
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  6. #186
    Spectacular Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Both of them chose to be soldiers. I'm not seeing the difference.
    There are huge differences in characterisation between Rucka's Steve in Rebirth and Steve in the movie.

    Part of it is because Steve in the movie carries a sense of loss with him due to Chris Pine's performance, but it's also alluded to when he refers to his father's saying when you see something wrong with the world. The Rebirth Steve carries nothing of that: we get no motivation why he chooses to join an elite group of soldiers. There is also a huge difference in the US role in the world in 1917 (or 1941) and the present day. Steve there acted as a very small cog in world-encompassing wars, and can really view himself as a soldier out of duty to his fellow men. Rucka's Steve acts in a very different environment.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    Diana is clearly pagan...what is Steve? Monotheistic? Atheist/agnostic?
    Kinda hard for Steve to not believe in the supernatural given the type of fictional universe that the character is in.

  8. #188
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7-Love View Post
    Kinda hard for Steve to not believe in the supernatural given the type of fictional universe that the character is in.
    Does it even make sense for anyone even civilians to atheist at all because with the amount of weirdness that plagues the DC Universe you should laughed at for thinking such things. If anything Steve should be that guy whose trying to survive in the weird situations he gets thrown into. That should be in his character due to him not being a resident from fantasy land so he'll be a little out of his depth.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  9. #189
    Spectacular Member kjn's Avatar
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    I sat down yesterday and tried to work out a Steve Trevor that would be distinct, someone who Diana could admire, and challenge her in som way.

    Steve was born into a well-established family with long military traditions. Went to the Air Force Academy, where he graduated and later was assigned as a transport pilot (C-130, C-17, or similar). On assignment to different combat and crisis zones he proved himself a capable and daring pilot, often ready to go beyond his orders or take risks to help people in need or when he thought it necessary. At the same time, he struggled with how he best could help people long-term, not only saving a few of them. His reputation as a pilot that could get things through also meant that he at times was assigned to support various grey operations, where what he learned often left him disgusted. He also managed to gain several contacts within the State Department.

    On a transfer flight his plane malfunctioned/was sabotaged/was shot down, and he ended up on Themyscira, where he encountered Diana. He returned with Diana to World of Man, where they soon were interacting with ARGUS. Steve realised that if he stayed in the military, he would soon be permanently assigned to ARGUS and would have to fully enter the world of black ops. Instead, he quit the military before they could re-assign him. At the time, he had made captain.

    Currently, Steve works as a pilot for a civilian transport contractor, which focus on humanitarian work, medical evacuations, and similar stuff. Some civilian government agencies also retain them for sensitive and discreet transports, helped by Steve's prior contacts. They also know that via Steve, they have a backchannel to Wonder Woman and the Justice League, outside of the military and security bureaucracies.

    Apart from being a very good pilot, Steve is a effective negotiator. He is able to talk his way into a compound or camp under siege, and bring out a hundred people or more to safety. He does this through a combination of audacity, confidence, and knowledge of the military mind. He is usually impeccably and conservatively dressed, as he has found it an effective way to intimidate his way past obstacles. He is also an excellent organiser, especially in ad hoc or emergency situations.

    (The main inspiration for this Steve Trevor is the Swedish diplomat Harald Edelstam.)

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