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  1. #31
    Mighty Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Yeah, Obi-Wan didn't seem to have any reaction whatsoever to Dexter mentioning that they're "Cloners"....and Lama Su's dialogue also seems to heavily imply that they've created other clone armies before (although not necesarilly for the Republic). Plus the saberdart in the first place implies that they've probably built weapons for said clones too.

    Early in ESB's development, Lando was actually supposed to a clone from a planet of clones (A concept that later sort of wound up in the EU with the Jedi Dorsk)


    Back when the EU writers were trying to walk around some of the continuity changes in the films via a few retcons here and there (They incorporated their own mythology over the clone wars that didn't line up 100% with the prequel version), I remember Zahn wrote a short story about the Spaarti cylinders from his trilogy being a sort of alternative method that Palpatine sort of had as a backup; likewise there was a story arc in the Republic comics about the Seperatists building clones of their own (Via the "Nikto" aliens seen in ROTJ).
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  2. #32
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    AotC already had too many Jedi in it to keep track of, and adding another to the mix via flashback or in person would have made the movie worse. Personally I would have taken out references to Syfo-Dyas entirely and instead had Obi-Wan know of the plan (it was stupid that he and the other Jedi didn't know about it). Also the Kaminoans were obviously whack-ass crazy MFers with no agenda for anything but personal gain, yet the Jedi trusted them? Crazy. I think that is solved by having the Jedi know about the deal and having a contract with Kamino on it.

    Changing other things about the movie to make the clone army more sensible? I hated that movie, but understood both why the clone army was created originally and who created them. What was unclear was the potential for Sith involvement, but that was deliberate so the later betrayal would have a surprise impact.

    So no other change from me other than to not go into pointless background stuff with the who's and wherefore's like they did and to have the Jedi know about the Clone Army
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 02-08-2018 at 05:29 PM.
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  3. #33
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    AotC already had too many Jedi in it to keep track of, and adding another to the mix via flashback or in person would have made the movie worse. Personally I would have taken out references to Syfo-Dyas entirely and instead had Obi-Wan know of the plan (it was stupid that he and the other Jedi didn't know about it). Also the Kaminoans were obviously whack-ass crazy MFers with no agenda for anything but personal gain, yet the Jedi trusted them? Crazy. I think that is solved by having the Jedi know about the deal and having a contract with Kamino on it.
    Ehm... It was a Sith plan. No other Jedi knew about the plan or the Clones because it was a plan to wipe out the Jedi using these Clones.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  4. #34
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Ehm... It was a Sith plan. No other Jedi knew about the plan or the Clones because it was a plan to wipe out the Jedi using these Clones.
    I was under the impression that it was ordered originally by a Jedi, then the Sith altered the plan and had the clone army manipulated when that Jedi died.
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  5. #35
    Mighty Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    AotC already had too many Jedi in it to keep track of, and adding another to the mix via flashback or in person would have made the movie worse. Personally I would have taken out references to Syfo-Dyas entirely and instead had Obi-Wan know of the plan (it was stupid that he and the other Jedi didn't know about it). Also the Kaminoans were obviously whack-ass crazy MFers with no agenda for anything but personal gain, yet the Jedi trusted them? Crazy. I think that is solved by having the Jedi know about the deal and having a contract with Kamino on it.

    Changing other things about the movie to make the clone army more sensible? I hated that movie, but understood both why the clone army was created originally and who created them. What was unclear was the potential for Sith involvement, but that was deliberate so the later betrayal would have a surprise impact.

    So no other change from me other than to not go into pointless background stuff with the who's and wherefore's like they did and to have the Jedi know about the Clone Army

    The Jedi didn't seem to have much of a choice; the Seperatists were already building a massive army of droids and as Mace Windu and the opening crawl both state, there weren't enough Jedi (I think it's said in some of the reference books state there's only a couple thousand) to function as a full army, only assume leadership roles as generals. So they didn't look a gift horse in the mouth.
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  6. #36
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    I was under the impression that it was ordered originally by a Jedi, then the Sith altered the plan and had the clone army manipulated when that Jedi died.
    None of the Jedi, not even Yoda, had ever even heard of Kamino, nevermind that they would supposedly have ordered a huge army there for some reason.

    And all of Palpatine's plans, that he's supposed to have been plotting for ages, are 100% reliant on having that Clone army.

    So we're back where we were a page ago:
    The only way this works on any level is one of these three options:

    Syfo was secretly in league with the Sith.
    Syfo was a dumbass who was completely manipulated by the Sith.
    Syfo was pushing up daisies and impersonated by the Sith.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  7. #37
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    None of the Jedi, not even Yoda, had ever even heard of Kamino, nevermind that they would supposedly have ordered a huge army there for some reason.

    And all of Palpatine's plans, that he's supposed to have been plotting for ages, are 100% reliant on having that Clone army.

    So we're back where we were a page ago:
    The only way this works on any level is one of these three options:

    Syfo was secretly in league with the Sith.
    Syfo was a dumbass who was completely manipulated by the Sith.
    Syfo was pushing up daisies and impersonated by the Sith
    .
    Before this thread I honestly never heard of anyone believing it was anything but those last two options.

  8. #38
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    There's some explanation about it in the novel Darth plaguis. Originally Darth Plaguis wanted another species to be the clone army and not humans but they were too wild to be controlled. In other history I think one of the Jedi was convinced by Dooku to help create it to defend the republic, still a sloppy explanation. You'd think the Jedi would have investigated as to why and who created the army, instead they just shrugged and used it...then the same army destroyed them.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mider2009 View Post
    There's some explanation about it in the novel Darth plaguis. Originally Darth Plaguis wanted another species to be the clone army and not humans but they were too wild to be controlled. In other history I think one of the Jedi was convinced by Dooku to help create it to defend the republic, still a sloppy explanation. You'd think the Jedi would have investigated as to why and who created the army, instead they just shrugged and used it...then the same army destroyed them.
    The army as far as the Jedi knew had been created by Sifo-Dyas which was a Jedi and one on the council. They had no reason to believe Sifo-Dyas was going to use them to kill Jedi. The Kaminoians also support a Jedi being responsible and the Sith had only been seen once in the last 1000 years. Nobody knew if it was the master or the apprentice, but as far as they knew Maul was it.
    Further than that, there had been around (canonically) 200 Jedi on Geonosis when Yoda showed up with the clones. They would've just attacked the surviving Jedi if they had been working with the Sith as the Jedi are largely surrounded, or they would've killed the Jedi while in route to Geonosis, possibly never showing up at all.
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