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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Fi View Post
    But what's your point? Hasn't Rogue forgiven Remy for everything he's done?
    The problem I think comes from the idea of Rogue still not wanting to be with Gambit again because she doesn't trust him and because of the things he has done in his past, or judges him harshly for being a thief, but is still willing to be with someone like Magento despite all his murders and all he has done in contrast. I mean despite what Rogue said in that page you posted from that issue of Legacy she still slept with him and entered into a romantic relationship with him.

    Though after Legacy despite all that happened with Magneto and other things I don't think Rogue and Gambit should have trust issues anymore. I think all of their trust issues and past problems were resolved in Legacy when Gambit risked his life saving her and her getting her powers under control finally. Gambit also became her longest standing team member of that book and stuck with her despite being rejected for Magneto after Schism.

  2. #62
    Incredible Member Muffinman's Avatar
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    This was a pretty good set up, I’m excited for more. I saw a bunch of people picking this up today, I hope it is enough to keep people interested. Rogue came off a little bitchy, but I am really glad she was running a training session with psylocke and some of the students. Loved the reference to the picnic

  3. #63
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The problem I think comes from the idea of Rogue still not wanting to be with Gambit again because she doesn't trust him and because of the things he has done in his past, or judges him harshly for being a thief, but is still willing to be with someone like Magento despite all his murders and all he has done in contrast. I mean despite what Rogue said in that page you posted from that issue of Legacy she still slept with him and entered into a romantic relationship with him.

    Though after Legacy despite all that happened with Magneto and other things I don't think Rogue and Gambit should have trust issues anymore. I think all of their trust issues and past problems were resolved in Legacy when Gambit risked his life saving her and her getting her powers under control finally. Gambit also became her longest standing team member of that book and stuck with her despite being rejected for Magneto after Schism.
    I honestly dont know what Rogue is still concerned about. What is this baggage? Deathbit? Did he forget her birthday? Leave the toilet seat up one too many times?

    I fear when it is all said and done I will be completely underwhelmed by whatever it is that is supposedly holding Rogue back.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  4. #64

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    It was creepy when Guggenheim had Peter chase Kitty despite all the times she said no (and bad writing when she said yes to that "proposal"), and it's still creepy here (and will be bad writing if the same thing happens here). It's a shame when I have to say that about my favorite character, G. Willow Wilson's fuck up with Remy during her X-Men arc was bad but it was born of her not doing her research, but this is from someone who knows these characters, so it's even worse.

    On a technical level, it's good comics. Thompson is great with jokes, that smash cut at the end is pretty funny and Perez doesn't slouch in the art department either. The only part of the equation I'm iffy about is D'Amarta, but, I've never really been too into his colors (just a preference thing).

    But, on a character level, the whole thing reeks. The best Gambit part of the issue is when he talks to Storm and that's just one page. She's the only other X-Man he really gets to interact with on a meaningful level (that isn't Rogue, of course), which is typical of Gambit's appearances since All-New X-Factor ended.

    I know people are probably gonna say "It's just the first issue." Hell, Kelly Thompson might show up in this very thread and say the same thing. But, while I love her Hawkeye and if the rumors are true and she's taking over Jessica Jones, I'm there day one, but Gambit is this Cajuns favorite comicbook character and I can't go along with this.

    Rogue and Gambit are the Sam and Diane of the X-Men, and I hated Sam and Diane.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    One really technical thing stood out to me and it is really key in understanding the problem Gambit fans have, or at least I have, with their relationship and how they are written.

    To me the issue itself was centered on Rogue and Gambit is just along for the ride. That has been a huge problem for Gambit in stories when he is with Rogue. Of course the reason for this is because all of the agency and story is built around Rogue and how Rogue feels. That unfortunately is where all the driving force is because there is no mystery or agency with Gambit's character anymore. His entire character and motivation is built on how can he get Rogue to love him again. That is it and it has been incredibly damaging to the character over the years. He's with the X-Men because he wants Rogue to love him, he is on this mission because he wants Rogue to love him, and all of his actions are him trying to get Rogue to love him. I just don't understand what he gets out of this anymore other than being used as a prop so Rogue can bounce her story off of.

    I mean I understand that the book is written for Romy fans who are nostalgic for their animated series dynamic. I enjoyed the two of them together back then, and his book did its best to dig up that nostalgia again, but they aren't those characters anymore and I think trying to write them like they are is regressive. Gambit pursuing her so frantically undermines all the development he has had since Legacy. Back in the animated series era it made sense for him to chase after her so hard because they had just met and the relationship was new. Then Rogue using her powers as an excuse to rebuff him falls flat because when she had control of her powers she still didn't want to be with him. She actually rejected him much more harshly than when she didn't have control.

    I don't blame KT for it or anything and she wrote a book specifically for Romy fans which for them it delivered. Plus I just think that is what most people view as natural between the two, even if I find it old hat. Gambit trying to win Rogue over and Rogue’s feelings about it being the crux of the dynamic. It just isn’t an even split because Gambit’s side of the equation is solved and has been solved for years. So there is no story to tell from his perspective and he suffers as a character because of it. So Rogue and Rogue's feelings become the driving force of the story and Gambit slides into that supporting role that his fans find frustrating. I just wish it would be okay if Gambit has other interests or priorities when around Rogue and behaves more balanced in his motivations, especially given their history, or Rogue pursing Gambit and trying to win his love for once, but that is a dead end and no one will write that.

    tl;dr

  6. #66
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    You raise an interesting point. Rogue takes the mission not because of Gambit but because she is genuinely interested in helping those mutants. That is how Kitty gets her to go and if she has to put up with her creepy X hitting on her to help mutants then so be it.

    By contrast the creepy X couldn't give two shits about helping those mutants just like he didnt care about helping Psylocke in AXM. He just wants to use this mission as a means to get in Rogue's pants again.

    At least that is what one assumes because Gambit doesnt even get the courtesy of having his meeting with Kitty shown.

    Oh I miss the days when Gambit genuinely wanted to help people not because of Rogue but because he was seeking redemption for himself.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Well this was a nice fun issue
    I'm normally pretty meh on Rogue and Gambit these days but Remy is an old favorite of mine and I guess on some level its nice to see this nostalgic pairing
    Rogue and Gambit have a lot of baggage though and surprise Rogue is right back to not being in control of her powers again so Gambit really did miss out on the best chance he had to really be with her(she chose Magneto IIRC)

    Still if you ignore all the baggage you can remember these two characters have a lot of chemistry together
    8/10

  8. #68
    Class clown Spasticat's Avatar
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    I hesitated coming into this thread...because dumpster fire...but if I'm going to show support then I like to see all sides of the equation despite the often angry tone.

    I really liked this issue. How could I not? I've only been waiting for this for a decade! But I do agree that Gambit came off as being too pushy and touchy feely. It reminded me of a personal situation with a stalker who has been after me for a few years—telling him 'not interested' or 'can't we just be friends' hasn't done squat except get him to back off until the next time he sees an opportunity. And with the recent trend of #metoo, Gambit's obvious overtures felt somewhat uncalled for. I think—I hope— KT will address this, as well as give us insight on why Rogue continues to tolerate it since she keeps saying their relationship is broken. Donpricetag made an excellent post about how she tends to run from everything. And I distinctly recall her speech in Legacy about her pushing Remy away because being with him makes her feel out of control. That level of passion between them could be a wonderful and powerful thing if only she would learn how to handle it better instead of becoming Speedy Gonzales.

    That said, I am so in for the long haul with this series. The art is beautiful, I love the coloring, and the jokes—OH BANTER, HOW I'VE MISSED YOU! The part where gambit scares her with his sudden appearance in the hallway was fantastic and relatable. Though some complain that the ending felt too brusque, I laughed my fool head off at the comedic timing. Same with Psylocke's "I know everything. One time when were all supposed to be having a picnic..." "Betsy! Shuttup!", and Kitty being a little shit (re-read the scene but picture them as their Evo counterparts—it's priceless!). February 7th seems like an eternity to wait for issue #2.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Fi View Post


    I'm sure there's something more re: Deadpool but I can't find it right now. Sorray. :/
    Rogue has tried to be mad at Magneto before. She slapped him in that very run but it never lasts.

    And she can hold Gambit to a different standard because he's a outright liar and theif...someone who contemplated killing Elizabeth when she was in that coma just to keep his Sinister secret. What a hero.

    Magneto told Rogue he would kill Zaladane...and then left. She was never going to turn on him for that. He ripped Wolverine to shreds right on front of her and yet when Magneto went down, she raced to his side above everyone else.
    Last edited by JasonEsta; 01-03-2018 at 08:16 PM.

  10. #70
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Right being a thief is worse that ripping your supposed friend to shreds. Thanks for reminding me of that.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurkerforyears View Post
    I think it's boring for Rogue to not be able to touch people, it's a plot that should have been solved definitely.
    And she could always use one of those collars that supress powers, at least for sex and relationships.
    It was solved..when she was Magneto. Then they got weak and tried to retread a 90s talking point that no one demanded.

  12. #72
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    And last I checked Magneto is an Olympic and outright liar and thief...and murderer-he even tried to kill his own son, he doesn't contemplate killing someone he's murdered hundreds of thousands with no sliver of remorse for any of it...she went to Magneto because it had just happened, Jean and the others had gone to Wolverine and Xavier, so it wasn't like she really had to choose between them, she just went to where it all happened...

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Right being a thief is worse that ripping your supposed friend to shreds. Thanks for reminding me of that.
    Works for Rogue because without that man, her ass would of been dead and would never met LeBeau.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    And last I checked Magneto is an Olympic and outright liar and thief...and murderer-he even tried to kill his own son, he doesn't contemplate killing someone he's murdered hundreds of thousands with no sliver of remorse for any of it...she went to Magneto because it had just happened, Jean and the others had gone to Wolverine and Xavier, so it wasn't like she really had to choose between them, she just went to where it all happened...
    Screaming "MAGNUS " and running to him over Xavier is a whole different scenario compared to your viewpoint.

  15. #75
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spasticat View Post
    I hesitated coming into this thread...because dumpster fire...but if I'm going to show support then I like to see all sides of the equation despite the often angry tone.

    I really liked this issue. How could I not? I've only been waiting for this for a decade! But I do agree that Gambit came off as being too pushy and touchy feely. It reminded me of a personal situation with a stalker who has been after me for a few years—telling him 'not interested' or 'can't we just be friends' hasn't done squat except get him to back off until the next time he sees an opportunity. And with the recent trend of #metoo, Gambit's obvious overtures felt somewhat uncalled for. I think—I hope— KT will address this, as well as give us insight on why Rogue continues to tolerate it since she keeps saying their relationship is broken. Donpricetag made an excellent post about how she tends to run from everything. And I distinctly recall her speech in Legacy about her pushing Remy away because being with him makes her feel out of control. That level of passion between them could be a wonderful and powerful thing if only she would learn how to handle it better instead of becoming Speedy Gonzales.

    That said, I am so in for the long haul with this series. The art is beautiful, I love the coloring, and the jokes—OH BANTER, HOW I'VE MISSED YOU! The part where gambit scares her with his sudden appearance in the hallway was fantastic and relatable. Though some complain that the ending felt too brusque, I laughed my fool head off at the comedic timing. Same with Psylocke's "I know everything. One time when were all supposed to be having a picnic..." "Betsy! Shuttup!", and Kitty being a little shit (re-read the scene but picture them as their Evo counterparts—it's priceless!). February 7th seems like an eternity to wait for issue #2.
    Don't think anyone is angry. We just like different things. If people were as respectful of other opinions as you were then there wouldn't be a problem.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

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