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  1. #196
    Incredible Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    Nothing you’re arguing here so based In fact.
    LOL!

    I could say the same about most of the post I have been responding too. I could pull several articles about Sales dropping and fans being upset. From reliable sources not internet blogs. There is not many reliable sources praising ANDA.

    The Sales alone show the results.
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  2. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    LOL!

    I could say the same about most of the post I have been responding too. I could pull several articles about Sales dropping and fans being upset. From reliable sources not internet blogs. There is not many reliable sources praising ANDA.

    The Sales alone show the results.
    You’re the one making baseless assumptions to fit your narratives, not us.

  3. #198
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    ANAD was just a label placed on a marketing campaign backed up with some new and already existing book titles. ANAD was actually an old moniker used in the past on Marvel books.

    It is nonsensical to suggest ANAD was an initiative to bring in lots of new characters at the expense of old established characters, that had been happening for the preceding two years. ANAD was the first wave after Secret Wars and represented a message that things had changed in the Marvel Universe.

    Included in this initiative was ASM which had a new status quo a number of books like Nova and Ms Marvel that had established their status quo before Secret Wars. Weirdworld was just a crazy retro comic. The biggest change to the universe was the total removal of the Fantastic Four. Iron Man’s change was not part of that marketing because it happened later, Thor was already in full hammer swing, Captain America was a big thing but again the Hydra story was later.

    This is not to say some people that clearly were not paying attention began to think of ANAD as an era. That isn’t how these marketing campaigns work, but that won’t stop people thinking otherwise. Legacy is an attempt to show these confused comic buyers that things have not changed out of all recognition and is using the word Legacy to mean two things. Legacy both suggests a connection with the past, while also incorporating legacy characters.

    There is technically not a lot of difference between ANAD and Legacy, they are both marketing efforts seeking to make people take a look at some new or relaunched books. These so called ANAD characters that don’t really answer to that name, will still be around. For example Champions will be back in the summer and Ms Marvel hasn’t been cancelled. We can bet Ironheart will stick around. We really don’t know if Miles really will take on a different name (my guess is he is going to move into ASM and Peter will be out of action). Moon Girl isnt going to suddenly disappear. I even suspect Logan’s return will not see him take up the Wolverine mantle.

    Legacy is business as usual.

    Now it remains to be seen if CB will actually course correct in some way, but we won’t see books with his name listed as EIC for a few months yet because Legacy is an Alonso initiative and his name is still in all the books.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 01-12-2018 at 11:32 AM.

  4. #199
    Mighty Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    ANAD was just a label placed on a marketing campaign backed up with some new and already existing book titles. ANAD was actually an old moniker used in the past on Marvel books.

    It is nonsensical to suggest ANAD was an initiative to bring in lots of new characters at the expense of old established characters, that had been happening for the preceding two years. ANAD was the first wave after Secret Wars and represented a message that things had changed in the Marvel Universe.

    Included in this initiative was ASM which had a new status quo a number of books like Nova and Ms Marvel that had established their status quo before Secret Wars. Weirdworld was just a crazy retro comic. The biggest change to the universe was the total removal of the Fantastic Four. Iron Man’s change was not part of that marketing because it happened later, Thor was already in full hammer swing, Captain America was a big thing but again the Hydra story was later.

    This is not to say some people that clearly were not paying attention began to think of ANAD as an era. That isn’t how these marketing campaigns work, but that won’t stop people thinking otherwise. Legacy is an attempt to show these confused comic buyers that things have not changed out of all recognition and is using the word Legacy to mean two things. Legacy both suggests a connection with the past, while also incorporating legacy characters.

    There is technically not a lot of difference between ANAD and Legacy, they are both marketing efforts seeking to make people take a look at some new or relaunched books. These so called ANAD characters that don’t really answer to that name, will still be around. For example Champions will be back in the summer and Ms Marvel hasn’t been cancelled. We can bet Ironheart will stick around. We really don’t know if Miles really will take on a different name (my guess is he is going to move into ASM and Peter will be out of action). Moon Girl isnt going to suddenly disappear. I even suspect Logan’s return will not see him take up the Wolverine mantle.

    Legacy is business as usual.

    Now it remains to be seen if CB will actually course correct in some way, but we won’t see books with his name listed as EIC for a few months yet because Legacy is an Alonso initiative and his name is still in all the books.
    CB Cebulski is listed as EiC on Avengers #675 (No Surrender) that came out this week
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  5. #200
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    CB Cebulski is listed as EiC on Avengers #675 (No Surrender) that came out this week
    Hmm so he is. However Alonso oversaw the writing of the event right through to the end, aside from the post event omega issue (not sure what it will actually be called) which was being put to one side at the time Alonso left because the writers needed a breather.

    Indeed I hadn't noticed CB's name on so many books this week, but my point was more that all the Legacy launches had Alonso in the credits and rightly so. I had expected him to remain in the books until the books CB had overseen began to be published but apparently not.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 01-12-2018 at 12:18 PM.

  6. #201
    Mighty Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Hmm so he is. However Alonso oversaw the writing of the event right through to the end, aside from the post event omega issue (not sure what it will actually be called) which was being put to one side at the time Alonso left because the writers needed a breather.

    Indeed I hadn't noticed CB's name on so many books this week, but my point was more that all the Legacy launches had Alonso in the credits and rightly so. I had expected him to remain in the books until the books CB had overseen began to be published but apparently not.
    I know what you mean. Perhaps CB had been involved in some form for longer than what was said... I have to say it surprised me also to see CB's name on the Avengers book this week, that's why I commented on your post.
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  7. #202
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    I know what you mean. Perhaps CB had been involved in some form for longer than what was said... I have to say it surprised me also to see CB's name on the Avengers book this week, that's why I commented on your post.
    I was convinced I had checked and seen Alonso so I smugly looked back and discovered you were right. I guess what this means is that this week’s books were sent to the printers after the changeover. It feels a little odd when I know from interviews that Alonso was quite hands on with this event, but factually I guess it has been published under CB so maybe that is more representative.

  8. #203
    Shou-Lao The Bitch Dragon Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Depends on how Inhumas and Iron Fist pan out.

    But I'm not going to pretend I read many of the A tier titles so Thor not being Jane anymore doesn't affect me.

  9. #204
    Astonishing Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    I know what you mean. Perhaps CB had been involved in some form for longer than what was said... I have to say it surprised me also to see CB's name on the Avengers book this week, that's why I commented on your post.
    Cebulski wasn't even in the United States until a week after the announcement of his promotion.
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  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    LOL!

    I could say the same about most of the post I have been responding too. I could pull several articles about Sales dropping and fans being upset. From reliable sources not internet blogs. There is not many reliable sources praising ANDA.

    The Sales alone show the results.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...s-woes/527127/

    “What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity,” David Gabriel, the company’s senior vice president of sales and marketing, told an interviewer at the summit. “They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not ... We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against.”

    At first glance, the dustup was an industry cliche: The relative lack of diverse creators—and characters—has been a bone of contention for years at both DC and Marvel. But in the aftermath of Marvel’s rocky first quarter—and with the controversial Secret Empire now in full swing—it’s clear the publisher’s problems run more deeply than an ill-timed storyline or public-relations fumbles. Audiences are drifting away. New fans feel ignored. Despite movies that dominate the cultural landscape and regularly clear millions of dollars, the entire edifice of corporate superhero comics represented by both publishers has been quietly crumbling for years, partially due to Marvel’s own business practices. Marvel can’t seem to actually sell comics, diverse or not—and the company only has itself to blame.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/b...thor-hulk.html

    http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/mar...mp-1202021440/

    You mean these guys?

    These guys point out to BUSINESS PRACTICES.

    Yet every month we get thread after thread attacking POC, LGBT & women lead books of Marvel. While others including DC get free passes despite worst books and lower sales.

    Miles, Panther, Moon Girl, Gwen, Squirrel Girl, Khan, Cho, Jane & Gwenpool have outlasted Superwoman, Cyborg & Blue Beetle.

    Especially after hearing DC does diversity better. Where are the retailer attacking DC for making those books along with a COLLECTION of books no one asked for like Flintstones, Future Quest, Mother Panic, Wacky Raceland, Doom Patrol, New Superman, Southland Vigilante, Cave Carson, Ambush Bug, Dark Matter line, Duke Thomas and Apollo & Midnighter. Southland never made it pass issue 3. Black Lightning mini has done stuff that would get Marvel books TORCHED on youtube. Marvel's so-called SJW books have beaten DC's collection at various levels. Along with Valiant's Faith and friends, IDW's Hasbro Universe, Dynamite, Dark Horse, Lionforge and Image.

    And today I saw someone bring up a good point-maybe this is a LESSON for store owners to stop relying on two companies to stay in business.

    Maybe Marvel (and DC too) wound't behave the way they do if there was more support for the other companies and SELF control by retailers.

    Why should Dc invest in anyone at DC not named Batman when he can Mary Sue at will and it gets over ordered?

    Why should Marvel care about the X-Men when despite nonstop trashing those fans still supported it?

    All those cries of blank doing it better did not result in higher sales for those companies. Because Faith at Valiant is WAY better than a lot of books at Dc & Marvel. So is Lionforge.

  11. #206
    Incredible Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...s-woes/527127/



    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/b...thor-hulk.html

    http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/mar...mp-1202021440/

    You mean these guys?

    These guys point out to BUSINESS PRACTICES.

    Yet every month we get thread after thread attacking POC, LGBT & women lead books of Marvel. While others including DC get free passes despite worst books and lower sales.

    Miles, Panther, Moon Girl, Gwen, Squirrel Girl, Khan, Cho, Jane & Gwenpool have outlasted Superwoman, Cyborg & Blue Beetle.

    Especially after hearing DC does diversity better. Where are the retailer attacking DC for making those books along with a COLLECTION of books no one asked for like Flintstones, Future Quest, Mother Panic, Wacky Raceland, Doom Patrol, New Superman, Southland Vigilante, Cave Carson, Ambush Bug, Dark Matter line, Duke Thomas and Apollo & Midnighter. Southland never made it pass issue 3. Black Lightning mini has done stuff that would get Marvel books TORCHED on youtube. Marvel's so-called SJW books have beaten DC's collection at various levels. Along with Valiant's Faith and friends, IDW's Hasbro Universe, Dynamite, Dark Horse, Lionforge and Image.

    And today I saw someone bring up a good point-maybe this is a LESSON for store owners to stop relying on two companies to stay in business.

    Maybe Marvel (and DC too) wound't behave the way they do if there was more support for the other companies and SELF control by retailers.

    Why should Dc invest in anyone at DC not named Batman when he can Mary Sue at will and it gets over ordered?

    Why should Marvel care about the X-Men when despite nonstop trashing those fans still supported it?

    All those cries of blank doing it better did not result in higher sales for those companies. Because Faith at Valiant is WAY better than a lot of books at Dc & Marvel. So is Lionforge.
    Are you even reading what I am posting or are you just firing back? Because I clearly said DIVERSITY was not the problem. The problem was the execution and the use of the new characters.And then how they where used there after. They still would have had a huge decline in sales.

    All of the characters could have been blonde haired, blue eyed, corn fed, white men and there still would have a problem with how the Creative Teams at Marvel choose to handle things.

    Not just you Sky but please read for understanding not for confrontation/back&forth.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 01-12-2018 at 05:32 PM.
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  12. #207
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Wow, this huge drop in sales must be terrible because they are only just in the lead as the most profitable publisher in direct market comics, which they have been almost every month for years. However will they cope!

  13. #208
    Incredible Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Being the leader in sales doesn't excuse a drop in them or the risk of loosing a customer forever. Which is more of a issue for any company then a potentially temporary sales decrease. Loosing a customer is not only a loss to a revenue stream but if you loose a customer on bad terms chances are he/she will tell 3-4 other people. The odds go on from there, with 2-3 of the people told never seeking out the company they where told about for business due to the poor recommendation and when asked by others who may be interested they will repeat the bad recommendation. Perpetuating a cycle that goes on and on from there.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 01-12-2018 at 05:55 PM.
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  14. #209
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    Inhumans played a big point of me looking into Marvel so I'm curious to see the future for them.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    This thread is for those that joined Marvel or really jumped on board from the ANAD Era. With this Era, Marvel introduce fantastic characters from all walks of life. From Falcon as Captain America, to Jane as Thor is probably Marvel's current most popular female heroine, to Riri as Ironheart, to Amadeus Cho as Hulk.


    Originally, Marvel provided the idea that their ultimate goal was to bring these characters into prominence and then slowly have them share the spotlight with their classic counterparts. A combination deal of Classic Characters with their legacy counterparts.

    However, as more news start to come out. It's slowly appearing the legacy characters are becoming a temporary thing, and that the return to status quo was possibly the true direction.

    Jane's is reaching her end as Thor as she scheduled to die.

    Falcon has already reverted back from Captain America to Falcon, with no black character to take the mantle.

    Miles current story seems to be trying to change his name from Spider Man, removing one of the core aspect of what made him popular to begin with.

    Cho is supposedly making the "Ultimate Sacrifice soon" which provides that idea that he will be losing his gamma radiation.

    Ultimately, all the headway and traction they made to having legacy mantle representation for all walks of life seems to be reverting back to way of old.

    So to those who join due to what Marvel was establishing in ANAD, what are you going to do as Marvel reverts back to it's status quo? DC solo offerings are slim to none, with it's only saving grace being the Dark Matter series coming up and none of those are legacy hero based.

    Are you plan on switching to independent? I personally have always been a manga reader, with ANAD being the main jumping on point to get me back into comics. This may allow me to put more money back into my manga reading. There's been quite a few series I wanted to pick up that I couldn't since I wanted to support Marvel.

    Or are you planning on staying with Marvel as it transitions back to a more "classic" approach.
    Wait if we're comparing it to ANAD why not just call a spade a spade and call it AWAM(All White All MAle) ?

    But seriously some of this stuff is really reaching. Bruce Banner it almost seems cruel to make him hulk again. And Miles not being spiderman? WTF? it's been 15 years and if you are so obssessed with being white that having a younger teenaged spiderman is problematic cause...


    I'm just gonna stop. Marvel poorly promotes it's two LGBT titles then bungs em in the dustbin before they even see trade sales.

    Even if DC doesn't have ongoing stories with them there are multiple books starring LGBT characters across the board. Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Batwoman, and even the Ray are all very in the public eye and have been explicitly canonized.

    And Bombshells is Literally a Alternate History book designed for the LGBT fan.

    If I didn't know better I'd say Marvel Greenlit Iceman and America just to look good, knowing they would do crap promotion for the titles and cancel them.

    Make Mine DC.

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