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  1. #1
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    Default Hey, isn't Thor worthy again?

    Was just remembering...

    ...right at the end of the prelude to Secret Wars he was using the hammer of a parallel universe Thor, that can only be lifted by the unworthy, to fight the Beyonders.

    And right as he's about to die from an attack by hundreds of Beyonders and he needs it the most, he finds he can no longerckift the hammer and laughs at the irony.

    So...
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

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    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Was just remembering...

    ...right at the end of the prelude to Secret Wars he was using the hammer of a parallel universe Thor, that can only be lifted by the unworthy, to fight the Beyonders.

    And right as he's about to die from an attack by hundreds of Beyonders and he needs it the most, he finds he can no longerckift the hammer and laughs at the irony.

    So...
    This has been discussed in these threads numerous times, but no, worthiness is not a binary construct.

    Put it this way, if you line up the entire population of the world there will be a few hundred people maybe that are worthy enough to weild Mjolnir, so what makes you think everyone else in the world would be able to weild a special alternative Mjolnir that epitomises unworthiness. Much more likely a similar number would be able to lift that hammer. So Thor joined the 99.9 percent of us that can't lift either hammer.

  3. #3
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Was just remembering...

    ...right at the end of the prelude to Secret Wars he was using the hammer of a parallel universe Thor, that can only be lifted by the unworthy, to fight the Beyonders.

    And right as he's about to die from an attack by hundreds of Beyonders and he needs it the most, he finds he can no longerckift the hammer and laughs at the irony.

    So...
    He seems to fall in this grey area. He's apparently not Unworthy. That just doesn't make him worthy by default though.

  4. #4
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    He'll probably still be Unworthy right up until he needs to be the main character again (so, basically, at the service of the plot).

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    This has been discussed in these threads numerous times, but no, worthiness is not a binary construct.

    Put it this way, if you line up the entire population of the world there will be a few hundred people maybe that are worthy enough to weild Mjolnir, so what makes you think everyone else in the world would be able to weild a special alternative Mjolnir that epitomises unworthiness. Much more likely a similar number would be able to lift that hammer. So Thor joined the 99.9 percent of us that can't lift either hammer.
    That makes no sense at all, sorry. He wasn't absolutely evil wielding the un-hammer.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    He'll probably still be Unworthy right up until he needs to be the main character again (so, basically, at the service of the plot).
    Now THAT makes sense.

    But... has he even tried to lift the hammer since Secret Wars?
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Now THAT makes sense.

    But... has he even tried to lift the hammer since Secret Wars?
    Not as far as I'm aware.

    He did go after Ultimate Mjolnir and seemed confident he could lift it and the lightning that came off it as he approached it seemed to suggest he was worthy to lift it but then he decided he did not want another hammer he wanted his own. Of course he hasn't tried to lift the original 616 hammer either out of seeming respect for Jane as well as the fact she actually needs it to live.

    The real question though is why didn't he try during Secret Empire. I guess evil Steve being able to able to lift the hammer was quite demoralizing but you'd think he's give it a chance.

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    This is pretty much what I was talking about in a Spider-man thread, funny that.

    Basically the Thorr hammer pretty much made the problem of him not having a hammer moot, and of course it's not going to get brought over into the main book because you can't have anything in a team book that would solve the problem in the solo (no hammer even unworthy, and implying he's worthy because he can't lift the thing). The solo book wasn't going to address it and worthiness is a bigger issue than the hammer itself (and kind of bullshit but that's a whole different topic). The point being is that the hammer or really any hammer wasn't going to make the jump because that isn't what the solo team is doing.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbus View Post
    Not as far as I'm aware.

    He did go after Ultimate Mjolnir and seemed confident he could lift it and the lightning that came off it as he approached it seemed to suggest he was worthy to lift it but then he decided he did not want another hammer he wanted his own. Of course he hasn't tried to lift the original 616 hammer either out of seeming respect for Jane as well as the fact she actually needs it to live.

    The real question though is why didn't he try during Secret Empire. I guess evil Steve being able to able to lift the hammer was quite demoralizing but you'd think he's give it a chance.
    Because the Hammer was changed by Kobik and it wasn't about who's worthy anymore. It was about who is... Hydra i think. I'd have to look it up again but there is a reason neither Thor could wield it back then.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    Because the Hammer was changed by Kobik and it wasn't about who's worthy anymore. It was about who is... Hydra i think. I'd have to look it up again but there is a reason neither Thor could wield it back then.
    Wasn't it Elisa Sinclair that did a spell that secretly made the hammer be receptive to someone strong as opposed to worthy or something like that? From the panels I remember it seemed a temporary thing in that moment that Evil Steve needed to lift it or maybe the spell died when she did. Either way it doesn't matter as Jane was in another dimension and Odinson did not even try to lift that hammer in that time.

    I get what they were trying to go for that Odinson had been shocked by Evil Steve lifting the hammer and thus questioning his own morality. If Hydra Steve could wield the hammer then maybe he was actually worthy and Hydra's ideology correct. Also he was led to believe Hydra were the only people who could cure Jane but it still seems screwy to me that he wouldn't even try to lift Mjolnir himself during that time.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I didn't follow the aftermath of Battleworld too closely as there weren't a ton of books I was interested in at the time so I dunno how accurate my reading of events is.

    But I figured when Thor was facing down a hundred Beyonders, knowing he was about to die and standing his ground like a badass, he found his worthiness. The look I recall on his face when he couldn't lift the un-hammer wasn't one of "Im not un-worthy nor worthy, Im just a dude!" it was "Im about to die, and have found my worthiness in these last moments."

    As for why he's no longer worthy.....are we certain he isn't? I don't recall him trying to lift any hammer since Secret Wars (though I could've missed it). And regardless, didn't everything from the incursions on get erased from time? That's how I thought it unfolded (though again....limited knowledge here). If that's the case then Thor never fought an army of Beyonders in the first place.
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  12. #12
    Astonishing Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    not if you ask Arron. At least he didn't show him getting the hammer of ultimate Thor or whoever and turn him into war thor foaming and killing to end the war.
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  13. #13
    Fantastic Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Haven't read Thor since the JMS run. Reading this thread makes me think that was the right call :/

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I didn't follow the aftermath of Battleworld too closely as there weren't a ton of books I was interested in at the time so I dunno how accurate my reading of events is.

    But I figured when Thor was facing down a hundred Beyonders, knowing he was about to die and standing his ground like a badass, he found his worthiness. The look I recall on his face when he couldn't lift the un-hammer wasn't one of "Im not un-worthy nor worthy, Im just a dude!" it was "Im about to die, and have found my worthiness in these last moments."

    As for why he's no longer worthy.....are we certain he isn't? I don't recall him trying to lift any hammer since Secret Wars (though I could've missed it). And regardless, didn't everything from the incursions on get erased from time? That's how I thought it unfolded (though again....limited knowledge here). If that's the case then Thor never fought an army of Beyonders in the first place.
    Okay.

    So the bottom line seems to be nobody knows if he's worthy or not.

    Mind you, if the whole thing is tied into his sense of self worth as Nich Fury's words clearly suggest, I don't see how he was not able to lift the Un-hammer.

    It seems like the biggest part of being worthy is not caring.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  15. #15
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbus View Post
    Wasn't it Elisa Sinclair that did a spell that secretly made the hammer be receptive to someone strong as opposed to worthy or something like that? From the panels I remember it seemed a temporary thing in that moment that Evil Steve needed to lift it or maybe the spell died when she did. Either way it doesn't matter as Jane was in another dimension and Odinson did not even try to lift that hammer in that time.

    I get what they were trying to go for that Odinson had been shocked by Evil Steve lifting the hammer and thus questioning his own morality. If Hydra Steve could wield the hammer then maybe he was actually worthy and Hydra's ideology correct. Also he was led to believe Hydra were the only people who could cure Jane but it still seems screwy to me that he wouldn't even try to lift Mjolnir himself during that time.
    I thought they did that with the Kobik fragments but you might be right. I didnt follow Thor stuff at that time and I don't think that main event book went really in-depth on that matter.
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