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  1. #106
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    There is no cash grab element to this story whatsoever.
    Per Lee’s lawyer on the Fortune article:


    “We are not aware of anyone filing a civil action, or reporting these issues to the police, which for any genuine claim would be the more appropriate way for it to be handled,” Tom Lallas, Lee’s lawyer, said in a statement to the site. “Instead, Mr. Lee has received demands to pay money and threats that if he does not do so, the accuser will go to the media. Mr. Lee will not be extorted or blackmailed, and will pay no money to anyone because he has done absolutely nothing wrong.”

    And you don’t think Daily Mail paid them $$ for the story?

  2. #107
    Mighty Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Sure this is a problem, but when it comes down to it, the Daily Mail are clearly attributing their source and at the same time protecting the individual that they have spoken to. They are also printing the right to reply from Stan's lawyers so all-in-all this is a respectable and responsible news report from a national newspaper.

    While it is popular to attack the Daily Mail for its reporting, their journalism is usually only suspect when it comes to political stories. There is no political slant to this article, this is them reporting something that has come to their attention and has been backed up by their own fact checking. They themselves can and have been sued for printing stories without evidence so we can assume they have satisfied themselves that the accusation is plausible and that the story is of public interest.

    It is worth noting that despite the lawyer's reply there is zero evidence that anyone is involved in extortion.

    P.S. I guess there is one political angle. It obfuscates the political sex scandals that have hit the current government, whom the Daily Mail support vehemently. It may be in their interest to have a few sex scandals that point elsewhere. However this wouldn't lead me to believe they are making the story up.
    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I think you will find that the Daily Mail are not commenting on the truth of this allegation either. So unless there were no nurses that complained or talked to their reporters, or unless the agency didn’t withdraw their services the story is factually correct. It is not saying the allegations are true. Neither am I.
    Yeah, I think people are misunderstanding these news. The article doesn't say at ANY point that Stan Lee is guilty of anything. They just report all sides from the story: from the accusers to the accused. While they could get away with lying about anonymous sources, they actually NAME sources from Stan Lee's side of the story (Tom Lallas, Julie Wozniak) and feature quotes from these people. If they were straight-up making up ALL of this, surely by now Stan Lee's legal team would've taken action to discredit them. I don't know if the accusations are true, but it seems pretty clear they were actually made.

  3. #108
    Mighty Member Coin Biter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I think you will find that the Daily Mail are not commenting on the truth of this allegation either. So unless there were no nurses that complained or talked to their reporters, or unless the agency didn’t withdraw their services the story is factually correct. It is not saying the allegations are true. Neither am I.
    I’m not suggesting that the Daily Mail are commenting on the truth of the allegations; I’m answering your point about the journalistic standards of the Daily Mail in areas where there isn’t a “political slant” by mentioning a recent case in which they have spectacularly failed to meet those standards. If you want others, you can look at the Clarifications and Corrections on their website; there’s one published on the 8th of January which I disliked intensely, although interestingly some of the worst examples seem to come from the Daily Mail Australia.

    I’m not going to form a judgement as to whether they have or haven’t met those standards in this case.

    As it happens, they’ve just published another story about Stan Lee about a separate allegation.
    Last edited by Coin Biter; 01-11-2018 at 01:54 PM.

  4. #109
    Mighty Member Coin Biter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Yeah, I think people are misunderstanding these news. The article doesn't say at ANY point that Stan Lee is guilty of anything. They just report all sides from the story: from the accusers to the accused. While they could get away with lying about anonymous sources, they actually NAME sources from Stan Lee's side of the story (Tom Lallas, Julie Wozniak) and feature quotes from these people. If they were straight-up making up ALL of this, surely by now Stan Lee's legal team would've taken action to discredit them. I don't know if the accusations are true, but it seems pretty clear they were actually made.
    Oh, there’s no doubt that the allegations were made.

    Here’s an interesting fact about libel law. I’m saying this entirely neutrally by the way; I’m not suggesting that the Mail has actually defamed anyone. However, you can still be guilty of libel as a newspaper for reporting what others have alleged, assuming of course that this accusation was defamatory, even without stating that the person was guilty.

    However, if you make an accurate and impartial account of a dispute then you’re likely to be able to avail yourself of the public interest defence under the Defamation Act 2013. That may be what the Mail has done here, or may not be; I’m not going to comment either way, because I’m simply not in a position to.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordozone View Post
    95 years. With no proofs for the moment.
    I don't understand you anymore, American people.
    Not all of us are buying in without question. I am personally skeptical of Lee's guilt. (I just do not think he should be cut a break if this is confirmed.)
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  6. #111

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    ....sigh.... so has this hit the mainstream press yet? I'm thinking most of the press doesn't treat Uncle Stan like a major celebrity. Since he lives in Los Angeles, the local press there might be more likely to be the first to pick up on it. but we'll see?

  7. #112
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaubier View Post
    Per Lee’s lawyer on the Fortune article:


    “We are not aware of anyone filing a civil action, or reporting these issues to the police, which for any genuine claim would be the more appropriate way for it to be handled,” Tom Lallas, Lee’s lawyer, said in a statement to the site. “Instead, Mr. Lee has received demands to pay money and threats that if he does not do so, the accuser will go to the media. Mr. Lee will not be extorted or blackmailed, and will pay no money to anyone because he has done absolutely nothing wrong.”

    And you don’t think Daily Mail paid them $$ for the story?
    The mail are not paying someone to print the story because there is nobody on record presenting their story. The only people making any claims about extortion are the legal team for Mr Lee. That does not amount to a cash grab. Indeed it dosen't even make sense.

  8. #113
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    ....sigh.... so has this hit the mainstream press yet? I'm thinking most of the press doesn't treat Uncle Stan like a major celebrity. Since he lives in Los Angeles, the local press there might be more likely to be the first to pick up on it. but we'll see?
    The Daily Mail is mainstream press. They are the fourth biggest selling newspaper in the world in the English language.

    I am no fan of the Daily Mail. I usually can't get past three pages without throwing it down in disgust, but they are mainstream and they are reputable. Yes they have the most upheld claims against them averaging over one a month, but they don't hold back so that figure is partly representative of their stance.

    If there was a picture of a nurse looking sad and quoted as saying "I was harassed read my story in the Mail" then somebody would be being paid big money. In this case I highly doubt any money has changed hands at all.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 01-11-2018 at 05:08 PM.

  9. #114
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    ....sigh.... so has this hit the mainstream press yet? I'm thinking most of the press doesn't treat Uncle Stan like a major celebrity. Since he lives in Los Angeles, the local press there might be more likely to be the first to pick up on it. but we'll see?
    I heard them talking about it on the radio.

    A nurse called in saying that if she had a nickle for every time an old man made sexual comments to her, she'd be rich. Most of the time they just can't help themselves. It's part of the job like making sure they have their pills and cleaning up any accidents they may have. You just laugh with them and move on.

  10. #115
    Fantastic Member Chainsaw Vigilante's Avatar
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    Innocent until proven guilty.

    Nothing like this has ever been said about Stan before and there are certainly people who would take advantage of him and his situation. If he did do such things they should have been reported to the police and proper authorities and there seems to be no instance of this happening. There are no reports of the nurses being threatened in any way, and this isn't some Hollywood actress blackmail to keep them from getting roles, so such an instance would not be relatable to others dominating the media. Neither Stan notr the nurses/attendees are guilty at this point, please treat this as such.

    Just putting this out there, my grandmother is not quite as old as Stan but in her 80's and her mind has been going these last couple of years, starting to say things she never would have before to in-home nurses. Apparently this is not out of the norm either and if this were the case in Stan's case the in-home nurses should be educated enough to know this sort of early onset dementia can occur and take the proper precautions to deal with it.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tupiaz View Post
    I have edit it. Even though I thought it with pretty clear with the (admitted misspelled - thanks autocorrect) word claiming was in fact claims.



    It is really not a choice if you feel offended or not. The emotion sexual harassment like groping evokes is boundaries been broken if it is by someone with who you know it is also trust. Whatever you talk privately, public or not don't talk at all is a choice. If you where offended is not. The emotion are still there. A way to deal with such emotion and hoping the won't happen again can be by speaking about them publicly. That is an action however the feeling and emotions it evokes we as humans have little control over. How we act on those feelings we have to some degree.
    Well, Danmad1977 doesn't seem to think a stranger touching his ass without his permission is a breach of boundaries.

  12. #117
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    The Daily Mail is mainstream press. They are the fourth biggest selling newspaper in the world in the English language.

    I am no fan of the Daily Mail. I usually can't get past three pages without throwing it down in disgust, but they are mainstream and they are reputable. Yes they have the most upheld claims against them averaging over one a month, but they don't hold back so that figure is partly representative of their stance.
    Effectively I agree with you about Daily Mail, although I must admit some things I’ve read from you and others on this thread tell me they are less accurate than I thought. (One additional point to be borne in mind is that papers can...and do...lose court cases where their reporting is essentially true. Civil cases are decided on balance of probability, not certainty, and papers are often handicapped by having to protect their sources.)

    Yes, Daily Mail report that there’s a dispute between Stan Lee and a nursing company he used to employ might be complete fiction. But it’s much more likely to be true than the “it’s the Mail so it’s a 50/50 shot” line some have suggested.

    And like you...no bias in favour of the Mail. I think I could read more than 3 pages without throwing it down in disgust, but reality is I don’t buy it.

  13. #118
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    A note on dementia. Yes it is highly prevalent in the elderly BUT a person over 80 still only has a 1 in 6 chance of suffering from dementia. It is blatantly ageist to suggest anyone that is in their 90s is bound to be loosing their marbles.

  14. #119
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    I think the word people are looking for is "Senility" not "Dementia".

    I don't have statistics but I suspect that most people above 90 experience some form of senility.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  15. #120
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I think the word people are looking for is "Senility" not "Dementia".

    I don't have statistics but I suspect that most people above 90 experience some form of senility.
    Yes indeed, and there is a big difference between having a few short term memory problems, mood swings and mild disorientation than suffering from dementia which is a chronic and degenerative condition. I am certain many of us will have experience of both with relatives, but it is important not to conflate the two.

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