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  1. #1
    Incredible Member TheSupernaut's Avatar
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    Default A question about Kryptonian maiden names.

    A random shower thought here, and I don't know if this has been covered anywhere else, but I figured if Supergirl's Kryptonian name is Kara Zor-El (Zor-El after her father), would Kal's daughter's name be say...Lara Kal-El?

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    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    A random shower thought here, and I don't know if this has been covered anywhere else, but I figured if Supergirl's Kryptonian name is Kara Zor-El (Zor-El after her father), would Kal's daughter's name be say...Lara Kal-El?
    If Clark were to give her a Kryptonian name that would be the tradition. But more likely her last name would be Kent. You know, thinking about it, it's odd that Clark isn't Kal Jor-El, that only females get the
    father's last name. Like why is he Kal-El, but she isn't just Kara-El? With humans sons are John Smith and daughters are Joan Smith. With Krypton supposed to have been such an enlightened advanced society
    it is sort of odd that they hung on the such outmoded, patriarchal traditions.

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    I don't believe Lurvan women change their names when they get married so it's just their name--no distintion between maiden name and married name. I wouldn't say it's partriarchal or matriarchal. Among the First Nations of the Americas, there are matrilineal, partrilineal and bilineal societies. But these systems are complex and if you looked at them from the outside you wouldn't easily tell which system is being used.

    E. Nelson Bridwell formalized the Lurvan house names system and he had a great knowledge of Earth cultures and traditions. Maybe he invented this system for Krypton to explain why Kara was usually just known as Kara while Kal-El was known as Kal-El. It seems like Kara has the grander title because she's Kara daughter of Zor-El. While Kal is Kal from the house of El. The names could indicate certain rights that the daughters had that trumped those of any sons.

    And Krypton had a storied past--so this naming tradition could have gone back ten thousand years. Just because a people advance that doesn't mean they give up certain cultural traditions.
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    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Also, let's not forget that Kryptonian culture had some pretty huge blindspots in it. I mean, they refused to believe their world was dying, despite ALL the evidence and the word of their greatest mind. They're arrogant, proud, and stuck in their ways. I wouldn't be surprised at all that their culture/s retained old fashioned naming practices.

    Krypton was advanced. They were far from a utopia. Isn't that the point?
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    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    A random shower thought here, and I don't know if this has been covered anywhere else, but I figured if Supergirl's Kryptonian name is Kara Zor-El (Zor-El after her father), would Kal's daughter's name be say...Lara Kal-El?
    I wondered about that too. Superman isn't Kal-Jorel but Supergirl is Kara Zorel.
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    If it was the same for boys as girls and balanced for both, then well it wouldn't work. It would soon get out of hand. Look, it's an additive thing where more and more names would be added to each male going down the line--if both males and females had their father's name added onto their name. It works in the current situation because it goes from male to female only.

    And if it was just Kal-El and Kara-El, that's not different from traditional names on Earth and still favours the male side over the female. I like that the women have cooler names than the men on Krypton.

    What I want to know is what happens with same sex couples--how do they decide what name to give their kids? And you know this is going to come up on the KRYPTON television series--they will want to have some same sex relationships. But maybe they'll just forget about the naming traditions from the comics.
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    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    What I want to know is what happens with same sex couples--how do they decide what name to give their kids? And you know this is going to come up on the KRYPTON television series--they will want to have some same sex relationships. But maybe they'll just forget about the naming traditions from the comics.
    Oohhh, interesting question.....

    I dont think Ive ever read anything about any version of Kryptonian history where homosexuality was explored at all. So having no actual evidence to go on, I'd assume that the child of a same-sex couple would likely take the name (or naming practice) of whichever family has more status. That seemed to be a thing in many versions of Krypton, the whole "ancient and noble House with their House Emblem" thing, so the kid of a gay couple would likely be given the name with the most prestige.
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    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    If it was the same for boys as girls and balanced for both, then well it wouldn't work. It would soon get out of hand. Look, it's an additive thing where more and more names would be added to each male going down the line--if both males and females had their father's name added onto their name. It works in the current situation because it goes from male to female only.

    And if it was just Kal-El and Kara-El, that's not different from traditional names on Earth and still favours the male side over the female. I like that the women have cooler names than the men on Krypton.

    What I want to know is what happens with same sex couples--how do they decide what name to give their kids? And you know this is going to come up on the KRYPTON television series--they will want to have some same sex relationships. But maybe they'll just forget about the naming traditions from the comics.
    They could just go with something similar to Old Norse tradition since everything is ultimately a fiction created using the world we know anyway.

    If a guy named Olaf had a son named Giermund, he would be Giermund Olafson. If Giermund had a daughter named Gertrude, she would be Gertrude Giermunddaughter.

    The only difference here seems that Kryptonian males get a surname that is passed down through generations while daughter's only get their father's full name. I think it would be interesting if boys got the surname of their father while girls got the full name of their mother or even just the first name. Of course, that would make Supergirl Kara Alura, which is kind of a cool name, or Kara Alurael.
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    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    A random shower thought here, and I don't know if this has been covered anywhere else, but I figured if Supergirl's Kryptonian name is Kara Zor-El (Zor-El after her father), would Kal's daughter's name be say...Lara Kal-El?
    Yes, exactly, and this naming convention is supposed to be universal. For example, Faora Hu-Ul's father is, clearly, Hu-Ul, whoever he was. Kryptonian women's "maiden names" for lack of a better term are their father's full name; once they get married, they lose last names altogether. Lara Lor-Van becomes simply Lara. I like it because it's a cool piece of worldbuilding. It's very specific micro-cultural difference. Plus, even if it's kind of patriarchal crap, it's a convincing one that mirrors a similar element in our own society that we all largely take for granted, so that element of it doesn't bug me much.

    Too bad writers keep forgetting it, intentionally or not. In Man of Steel, they call Faora "Faora-Ul", which irritates me a lot. In the comics, Kal's alleged future daughter Cir-El would be more properly named Cir Kal-El unless she's a boy, and on the upcoming Krypton TV show, names like Lyta Zod and Nyssa-Vex just infuriate me. How hard is consistency? What's wrong with Nyssa Daron-Vex? We know her father's name! It's not difficult!

    Actually, since Man of Steel and Krypton are both developed by David Goyer, it wouldn't surprise me to learn he just dislikes the sexist naming convention, but that's no reason to throw out like sixty years of Kryptonian naming! Like I said, it reflects a real-life sexist naming convention.
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    Of course, before this naming convention was invented there were some Kryptonian characters that didn't follow the rule, like Lyla Lerrol. But I assume this is a minor error and her name should actually look like Lyla Lerr-Ol or Lyla Ler-Rol.

    Most female first names end in an "a." While almost all male first names end in a consonant. Family house names tend to be one syllable.

    But this might only be true for the new hemisphere continent of Lurvan, where Kryptonopolis, Argo and Kandor were all situated. Other continents, like Urrika in the old hemisphere, might have their own naming conventions.
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  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Yes, exactly, and this naming convention is supposed to be universal. For example, Faora Hu-Ul's father is, clearly, Hu-Ul, whoever he was. Kryptonian women's "maiden names" for lack of a better term are their father's full name; once they get married, they lose last names altogether. Lara Lor-Van becomes simply Lara. I like it because it's a cool piece of worldbuilding. It's very specific micro-cultural difference. Plus, even if it's kind of patriarchal crap, it's a convincing one that mirrors a similar element in our own society that we all largely take for granted, so that element of it doesn't bug me much.

    Too bad writers keep forgetting it, intentionally or not. In Man of Steel, they call Faora "Faora-Ul", which irritates me a lot. In the comics, Kal's alleged future daughter Cir-El would be more properly named Cir Kal-El unless she's a boy, and on the upcoming Krypton TV show, names like Lyta Zod and Nyssa-Vex just infuriate me. How hard is consistency? What's wrong with Nyssa Daron-Vex? We know her father's name! It's not difficult!

    Actually, since Man of Steel and Krypton are both developed by David Goyer, it wouldn't surprise me to learn he just dislikes the sexist naming convention, but that's no reason to throw out like sixty years of Kryptonian naming! Like I said, it reflects a real-life sexist naming convention.
    Oddly enough, I think we can look to the precedent Johns established with New Krypton to rectify this.

    Multiple cultures.

    We tend to think of Krypton as a single culture, and to a very large degree that's how its always been presented. But at one point they likely had separate societies and cultures, each with their own naming ceremony (I believe the Silver Age did include a few different Kryptonian cultures too, and more than just the "this is where the black people are" one....). And as Krypton is often shown to be somewhat nostalgic and sent in their ways, it's easy to assume some remnants of those different cultures remained beyond unification. So anyone who doesn't fit the usual naming model just comes from a family that kept its traditional name/naming tradition.

    Sure, Johns established the idea of different guilds being responsible for different manner of dress and such, but its an easy conversion to make.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Of course, before this naming convention was invented there were some Kryptonian characters that didn't follow the rule, like Lyla Lerrol. But I assume this is a minor error and her name should actually look like Lyla Lerr-Ol or Lyla Ler-Rol.

    Most female first names end in an "a." While almost all male first names end in a consonant. Family house names tend to be one syllable.

    But this might only be true for the new hemisphere continent of Lurvan, where Kryptonopolis, Argo and Kandor were all situated. Other continents, like Urrika in the old hemisphere, might have their own naming conventions.
    True.

    Plus there may have been those whose fathers were unknown or in dispute. Or Kryptonian equivalents to Madonna and Cher who were known without needing a surname.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    I'm starting to wonder if maybe -Vex is a special surname. There's a woman named Car-Vex in the comics. Who was actually in the same comic book as a woman named Nadira Va-Dim. I like the idea that there are several sets of traditions. Honestly it's a bit too much "planet of hats" to have ALL Kryptonians use the same naming convention.

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