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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Could you explain what you mean?
    Basically, in Maggin's take Superman regarded Clark as almost another person entirely, to the point that when his identity was exposed and he became Superman fulltime, he mourned Clark Kent as if Clark had died.

    J'onn J'onnz and John Jones would have a similar level of distinction between them. Almost as if they are two people in the same body. They would be fully aware of each other's existence, but would be otherwise fairly autonomous
    Haha yes! Zook, right?
    I actually wasn't aware of that character, but I can easily imagine my concept being used to reintroduce him

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    J'onn J'onnz and John Jones would have a similar level of distinction between them. Almost as if they are two people in the same body. They would be fully aware of each other's existence, but would be otherwise fairly autonomous
    Yikes, don't you feel that would triple and quadruple down on the alien-ness of his character?

    I think the idea is terribly interesting, but the notion suggests that J'onn has something like dissociative disorder. I'm obviously exaggerating, but don't you think we'd need to at least experience J'onn's world through a central persona? Even if his aliases have individual traits, shouldn't we meet J'onn's as the alien refugee he truly is?

  3. #78
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Yikes, don't you feel that would triple and quadruple down on the alien-ness of his character?

    I think the idea is terribly interesting, but the notion suggests that J'onn has something like dissociative disorder. I'm obviously exaggerating, but don't you think we'd need to at least experience J'onn's world through a central persona? Even if his aliases have individual traits, shouldn't we meet J'onn's as the alien refugee he truly is?
    When we deal with being who shapeshift regularly, I can believe that they would have different personas based on what look they have. Think of it as our work selves, our selves with our spouse, our personality with our kids. We're all the same person, but we act differently based on our surroundings.

  4. #79
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    I suppose you're right. I'm coming at all these suggesting from the frame I established earlier. They'd all be deductive thinkers, but maybe some personas are more or less verbose, more or less jovial.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Blackness is not a problem. Racism is a problem. J'onn isn't black but he CHOOSES to be when he seeks to experience humanity. I think that's a good message.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    J'onn did comment he found wearing a skirt surprisingly comfortable when he filled in for Kara Danvers after Supergirl was being mind controlled by Black Mercy.



    From what I have read, J'onn J'onzz is very popular with black people. They have adopted him as one of their own.

    I think the standard bearer should be actually black,not a guy who can change just as fast into anything else,as a black guy.he isn't black,he is a chameleon,Icon,val zod,president Superman,steel,black lightning,John Stewart,static,kid flash,amazing man,and a ton more are actually black.

  6. #81
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    It's easy enough to make mars the alien world under our noses.

    psychic shield.

    basically a psychic machine that projects what the original martians want it to believe.

    now it's breaking down and it's like finding out that your neighbor is getting ready to declare war on you.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Trey, you wanted to change his look (including skin color, hair and costume), his origin, and his powers. You left very little, if anything, of the original character left. That's what people got on you about.

    Mars is a problematic concept. An idea that the martian civilization was million of years in the past has been used. That concept is scientifically sound today, that is, life on Mars in the distant past. We know trying to come up with the version of MM that would be generally popular is tough. Numerous writers have tried to put their slant on him and very few have been successful in lighting fandom's fire.

    John Ostrander (whom you say isn't the solution and I agree here) managed to bring many of those facets together. This is probably why his run was the most successful for J'onn. What about J'onn is good and makes him the character he is? Find and keep that and your chances of success are better. But something needs to be kept or it's not the same character.
    He can keep his green skin. I never said a word about that, although hair might do him some good. He mainly needs a secret identity in which he looks like a human. That's what people get away from. They think he needs to be the funny-looking bald green guy all the time, and he doesn't. It's like the idea that Hal Jordan needs to stay in space all the time. Well, why does he? Especially now that his comic is in decline. DC needs to try something different with him.

    As with Hal Jordan, the more time the MM spends in his secret identity and surrounded by a supporting cast, the better. He can shift into his green man mode when he needs to.

    Anyway, what have his looks got to do with his character? Nothing. You don't need to alter his personality when you alter his appearance.

  8. #83
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    and I would keep his fetishes for chocos and classic rides. 8-)
    Last edited by shades of eternity; 01-15-2018 at 12:47 PM.

  9. #84
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shades of eternity View Post
    and I would keep his fetishes for chocos and classic rides. 8-)
    A) This
    B) QFT
    C) What they said
    D) All of the above

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    I think the standard bearer should be actually black,not a guy who can change just as fast into anything else,as a black guy.he isn't black,he is a chameleon,Icon,val zod,president Superman,steel,black lightning,John Stewart,static,kid flash,amazing man,and a ton more are actually black.
    No one's saying J'onn should take anyone else's "spot".

    If were up to me, Hal Jordan would be on the frontiers of outer space. John Stewart would be in change of sector 2814, and Lanterns Baz, Cruz, Rayner and Gardner would be beat cops under Stewart's authority. Black Lightning would teach at Young Justice's school, and Static would be his protege. White Wally wouldn't exist and Steel would world for STAR Labs Metropolis.

  11. #86
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    He can keep his green skin. I never said a word about that, although hair might do him some good. He mainly needs a secret identity in which he looks like a human. That's what people get away from. They think he needs to be the funny-looking bald green guy all the time, and he doesn't. It's like the idea that Hal Jordan needs to stay in space all the time. Well, why does he? Especially now that his comic is in decline. DC needs to try something different with him.

    As with Hal Jordan, the more time the MM spends in his secret identity and surrounded by a supporting cast, the better. He can shift into his green man mode when he needs to.

    Anyway, what have his looks got to do with his character? Nothing. You don't need to alter his personality when you alter his appearance.
    You really should have read what I said. It might have helped on your other thread as well. I'm not arguing against any of the points you've made. I'm saying that ALL of them at the same time changes the character too much. There are people who agree with all of the points you've made but individually. It's the everything issue that is disagreed with.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    No one's saying J'onn should take anyone else's "spot".

    If were up to me, Hal Jordan would be on the frontiers of outer space. John Stewart would be in change of sector 2814, and Lanterns Baz, Cruz, Rayner and Gardner would be beat cops under Stewart's authority. Black Lightning would teach at Young Justice's school, and Static would be his protege. White Wally wouldn't exist and Steel would world for STAR Labs Metropolis.
    I'm just saying jonn should not be set up to "understand" what a black man goes through,when he changed all the time,and he has immense super powers,he can't relate,but for very superficial imo.

    Man you had me until you said OG Wally shouldn't exist,that hurt,and he should never go away ever again.

    I like the way you set up the characters where they would naturally fit,which is the way I would want it.

    Are you wanting Jonn to pick 1 human identity,and stick with it?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    I'm just saying jonn should not be set up to "understand" what a black man goes through,
    Are you suggesting that Clark has an understanding of wypipo? I never once suggested that J'onn would have an authentic black man's experience. He's a shapeshifting alien. I LIKE that he seems to choose the shape of a black man often when he seeks to walk among humanity.

    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    Man you had me until you said OG Wally shouldn't exist,that hurt,and he should never go away ever again.
    The Flash family is a mess, I barely know enough about it. So.. sorry I hurt your feelings? I don't mind that he was introduced as a black character in Nu52, it's a multiverse and Nu52 was never supposed to last forever. What I mind is the continuity backflips that seem to happen just to coddle the racists.

    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    I like the way you set up the characters where they would naturally fit,which is the way I would want it.
    To continue: Vixen would lead an interdimensionally adventuring Justice League team. Bumblebee would be retired from heroics, but be a project team leader at PalmerTech. Empress would return as Wonder Girl's best friend. Firestorm's youngest component would be the metahuman Hotspot, and be best friends with Static. Jet would be second in command of the North American Justice League. Batwing, AKA Popobawa, would return to Congo as David Zavimbe, and lead the second of two Justice Leagues patrolling the continent of Africa. The first would be led by Doctor Mist, AKA Owusu.

    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    Are you wanting Jonn to pick 1 human identity,and stick with it?
    No. He's a shapeshifter. He can have a million. Still, I would prefer him to choose a black man's appearance and identity in his role as director of the D.E.O. and/or Police Detective. What's the national or international equivalent to a local-municipal police detective?
    Last edited by CRaymond; 01-15-2018 at 03:11 PM.

  14. #89
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    besides the green/white split, should certain powers be more likely for a particular gender?

    It would explain amongst other things why there are two genders in a telepathic shapeshifting culture.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Are you suggesting that Clark has an understanding of wypipo? I never once suggested that J'onn would have an authentic black man's experience. He's a shapeshifting alien. I LIKE that he seems to choose the shape of a black man often when he seeks to walk among humanity.



    The Flash family is a mess, I barely know enough about it. So.. sorry I hurt your feelings? I don't mind that he was introduced as a black character in Nu52, it's a multiverse and Nu52 was never supposed to last forever. What I mind is the continuity backflips that seem to happen just to coddle the racists.



    To continue: Vixen would lead an interdimensionally adventuring Justice League team. Bumblebee would be retired from heroics, but be a project team leader at PalmerTech. Empress would return as Wonder Girl's best friend. Firestorm's youngest component would be the metahuman Hotspot, and be best friends with Static. Jet would be second in command of the North American Justice League. Batwing, AKA Popobawa, would return to Congo as David Zavimbe, and lead the second of two Justice Leagues patrolling the continent of Africa. The first would be led by Doctor Mist, AKA Owusu.



    No. He's a shapeshifter. He can have a million. Still, I would prefer him to choose a black man's appearance and identity in his role as director of the D.E.O. and/or Police Detective. What's the national or international equivalent to a local-municipal police detective?

    I'm cool with him walking as a black guy,but I don't want any writers trying to use Jonn as a mouthpiece for being black,Jonn is the mouthpiece for being a green alien that's it,and I don't trust writers to not push this idea.

    The flash family is awesome,and I think there is plenty of room for both Wally's and Bart,Jesse's,max,and Jay back also.oh and I'm a huge Wally West fan,and I'm not a racist,I just want characters to be what they are,and create new ones if your wanting to go in a new way(like miles Morales)

    Are you saying you want hotspot to take one of the places for the merger of firestorm? He already has powers,wouldn't that take away from the ideal of the merger?

    I liked Jonn as shown on Smallville and Supergirl(even if he got the shaft all the time on both),so I would love for Jonn to have some kind of over reaching authority like that

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