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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I know. Its not going to get much support from his fans.

    The thing is, I want Gar out of the Titans. I feel like he's done what he can do on that team, and what can be said about "Gar the Titan" has been said. Its time to move on. I'm also kinda on a "post-spandex" kick where I want to see more characters exploring other kinds of heroism, which isn't the best platform for a DC comic book series (it'd be sorta boring). And I do think that Gar and Vic work best together, so even if Gar was on a team somewhere, I'd still want him in Vic's title. He would make the book *so* much better! And whether he's part of a team or a quasi-sorta co-star/supporting character in someone else's solo, his development is still going to move through subplots. The main difference is, as a supporting character, he isn't required to punch people as often, which opens up new avenues to explore the character. But I know his fans would never get behind this idea.

    That said, if they wanted to try this "celebrity activist, part-time hero" thing out with a Young Animal or Vertigo-esque title? I'd try it. I just think Gar has more potential outside the heroic community than he does inside it.

    EDIT: And what do you mean, "Cyborg of all people?" Victor Stone is a national treasure!
    I did always want DC to do more stuff than just superheroes, but that's what they're built off of. But I feel like not a lot of people on into DC heroes nowadays. I say DC heroes because Marvel Heroes are remembered through their movies, and apparently people are into heroes from one punch man and My hero Academia.

  2. #77
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    The Titans to me should be made up of basically the original "Teen Titans", the group before Marv Wolfman & George Pérez launched The New Teen Titans.



    In other words, the group before Cyborg, Raven, and Starfire (Koriand'r, DC's third "Starfire") joined.

  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shockingjustice View Post
    I did always want DC to do more stuff than just superheroes, but that's what they're built off of. But I feel like not a lot of people on into DC heroes nowadays. I say DC heroes because Marvel Heroes are remembered through their movies, and apparently people are into heroes from one punch man and My hero Academia.
    Well, the industry doesn't have a grand influx of new readers, that's for sure. But for all their movie success, neither does Marvel or any other publisher. Whats happening in larger pop culture right now is some of Marvel's IP's are starting to approach the kind of general recognition that DC characters have enjoyed for decades.

    But that doesn't translate into stronger sales, for a number of reasons.

    But back on point, one of the reasons I wanted to see Gar as a supporting character is because that's how you get to explore the "non-spandex hero" concept. You can't get away with that as a solo act or as a team member because DC needs those action sequences and fist fights. But as a supporting character, Gar has more freedom to evolve and grow. It's still not a rationale that'll get his fans behind the idea, but its what I'd like to see, and I think it would actually make Gar a better character. He's sort of lousy at being a spandex hero, but could be great as one of those idealistic, loud-mouth celebrities backing charities and social issues.

    And I gotta be honest, I thought this thread would have a lot more ideas for Terra.
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  4. #79
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    The Titans to me should be made up of basically the original "Teen Titans", the group before Marv Wolfman & George Pérez launched The New Teen Titans.

    In other words, the group before Cyborg, Raven, and Starfire (Koriand'r, DC's third "Starfire") joined.
    Who's the red head behind Dick and Donna supposed to be?

    And is anyone else in that picture aware that Flamebird is grabbing Robin's ass?
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  5. #80
    Fantastic Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Who's the red head behind Dick and Donna supposed to be?

    And is anyone else in that picture aware that Flamebird is grabbing Robin's ass?
    Lilith I think.

    LOL!!!!!

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    The Titans to me should be made up of basically the original "Teen Titans", the group before Marv Wolfman & George Pérez launched The New Teen Titans.



    In other words, the group before Cyborg, Raven, and Starfire (Koriand'r, DC's third "Starfire") joined.
    I'm not sure how well that would go. Very few of them set the world on fire the first time around. Duela Dent, Golden Eagle and Gnaark are the favorites of very, very few individuals, if any even exist.

    Though I do find it funny that Wolfman dismissed all of them as being lame (and he wasn't wrong), yet his contributions to the team sans-Perez as his co-creator were the likes of Azrael (whose superpower seemed to be just flying, crying at Lilith and asking stupid questions), Pantha, Kole, Wildebeest, the Team Titans and Danny ****ing Chase. Rogue, Psylocke, Gambit, Jubilee and the New Mutants those guys were not. I may knock them a lot for being C-list blasts from the past, but I'd take (non-costumed) Lilith, Bumblebee and Mal over the late 80s/early 90s Titans any day of the week.

    I think the best course of action would be to streamline the property down to having only the Fab 5 and the NTT characters (Cyborg, Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy, Terra and Jericho) involved in the franchise's history, regardless of what they may be doing now, and trying to create a whole slew of new heroes and villains to inject some new blood into the property.

  7. #82
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Who's the red head behind Dick and Donna supposed to be?
    Lilith.




  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyWestFlash View Post
    Lilith I think.

    LOL!!!!!
    Ah! Of course. Should've realized.

    The current costume is so bad it's apparently burned every other image of Lilith out of my mind.
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  9. #84
    Astonishing Member El_Gato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'm not sure how well that would go. Very few of them set the world on fire the first time around. Duela Dent, Golden Eagle and Gnaark are the favorites of very, very few individuals, if any even exist.

    Though I do find it funny that Wolfman dismissed all of them as being lame (and he wasn't wrong), yet his contributions to the team sans-Perez as his co-creator were the likes of Azrael (whose superpower seemed to be just flying, crying at Lilith and asking stupid questions), Pantha, Kole, Wildebeest, the Team Titans and Danny ****ing Chase. Rogue, Psylocke, Gambit, Jubilee and the New Mutants those guys were not. I may knock them a lot for being C-list blasts from the past, but I'd take (non-costumed) Lilith, Bumblebee and Mal over the late 80s/early 90s Titans any day of the week.

    I think the best course of action would be to streamline the property down to having only the Fab 5 and the NTT characters (Cyborg, Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy, Terra and Jericho) involved in the franchise's history, regardless of what they may be doing now, and trying to create a whole slew of new heroes and villains to inject some new blood into the property.
    I think Lilith, Bumblebee and Mal should stay with that hypothetical team (NTT + Fab 5) due to historical significance. The latter were DC's first Black superheroes and Lilith was the first non sidekick to join.

    Also Mirage, Argent, Hotspot and Red Star from the early 90's have potential, so I'd add them too.
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  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Yknow, I've mentioned some characters, but I haven't said anything about the Titans team itself, beyond my desire to see the old cast move on.

    But if you wanted to keep the classic Titans together (I personally dont) and still give them a purpose as a group that's sustainable......I've only seen two ideas that strike me as plausible solutions.

    Keeping in mind that "friendship" only seems to sell comics about small horses, and none of DC's reunion Titans titles have ever lasted or even been good.......

    You do the Devin Grayson/Geoff Johns approach and have the O5/NTT train the newest generation of heroes. It makes sense on a lot of levels. The first generation of teen heroes had to cut their own trail, and it got messy a lot of the time. The world, and the next generation, can benefit from those lessons. Several of the Titans are experienced teachers and mentors, including Donna, Vic, and Kori. Several are well regarded leaders, including Donna and Dick (often credited as the greatest leader in the DCU). Many of the Titans have had sidekicks of their own, including Dick, Roy, and Wally.

    So that lends itself to a mixed roster of old and new faces with a permanent, sustainable goal and a unique role in the world. Essentially the Young Justice cartoon in premise, which isn't a bad precedent to follow at all.

    Or, you let everyone take a "step up." You let the Titans do what they were meant to do; replace the League and become the world's greatest team. Let them tackle the biggest threats to hit the earth; the alien invasions and the genie hordes and sun eaters and extinction events. Let them be the new "Justice League." When they were teenagers they were fighting demon lords. As adults in their prime with even more experience? Demon lords get sent back to hell before lunch. Half the problem with the Titan reunions is they just do the same stuff they used to do. They don't have bigger adventures (in truth, they're often smaller) and that leaves readers feeling like the group has stagnated when they should have grown. This solves that problem, and instead of being a group of friends who happen to be a team, now you have a team with a important, badass purpose, who are badass at their job by design, who happen to be friends. It's practically the old school Avengers, only with (hopefully) more maturity. And what of the League itself? They step up too. Now they're not dealing with alien invasions, they're dealing with higher dimensional sentient ideas, nebula-sized anti-matter storms in Sector 004, super villains from beyond the Orrey of Worlds, and invasions from earths 3 and 43 (CSA and vampire earth). With the Titans protecting the earth, the League can finally expand its gaze and deal with bigger problems. Imagine how Metal might have gone down if the League was in a position to take the fight to Barbatos right from the start?

    This does still leave the Titans under the League in the heroic hierarchy of importance but it gives them a role and purpose, and let's be honest, no one is ever going to consider the Titans the more important team anyway. More enjoyable perhaps, but not more important.
    Last edited by Ascended; 02-05-2018 at 07:30 PM.
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  11. #86
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Gato View Post
    . . . Also Mirage, Argent, Hotspot and Red Star from the early 90's have potential, so I'd add them too.
    Actually, "Red Star" has more potential than you may realize. He was "Starfire" back in 1968.




  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Ah! Of course. Should've realized.

    The current costume is so bad it's apparently burned every other image of Lilith out of my mind.
    is it bad?

  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    is it bad?
    Well, I think it is.
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  14. #89
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    The current costume is so bad it's apparently burned every other image of Lilith out of my mind.
    Does it look like this?



    And is it any worse than Raven's New52 costume where it looked like she was being swallowed by a carnivorous plant?


  15. #90
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Does it look like this?
    Thats the one!

    And is it any worse than Raven's New52 costume where it looked like she was being swallowed by a carnivorous plant?
    Its definitely not worse. Not sure if its any better.
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