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  1. #2461
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Honestly I don't see that idea as being something that is coming out of left field at all. Clark, Lois and Jon have spent the last ten year, most of which we never see mind you, trying to be a "normal" family or at the very least to be as "normal" as possible. Even in Tomasi's and Jurgen's runs though we can clearly see that their attempts at being a "normal" family were all for naught and that they are really not the typical family at all. I think Bendis is merely trying to put more of a focus on that aspect of their lives. That said I still wouldn't mind seeing times where their family is able to occasionally be just a "normal" one as a sort of breather between epic adventures and various villains attacking Superman.
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  2. #2462
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    So it seems the whole "dude, he's new species and you just assumed he'd grow up like either of you? WHY??" theory is gonna possibly hold some water. Bendis might be channeling the idea of Jon being the super version of a child with special needs. This is a super ballsy movie on Bendis' part if it's true. Hard to say how I feel about it if it's true. My most basic instinct is that I'm suuuuuuuper down with that. I've been waiting for some profound oddity to come up with Jon's biology. I'd always assumed it would be with the emergence of a new and nearly uncontrollable power, but this would very much due for me. One the other hand this is such a razor's edge to walk (again if true) and I'm covering my eyes legitimately scared for Bendis.

    As I said before, we don't know if this translates to rapid aging or not. Could, sure, but be don't know.

    And in regards to the scar and what it means? Why are people assuming he put it there himself? Why are people assuming he's ashamed of being half human? There's a space raciest out there (with whole intergalactic Illuminati that just let his actions and ravings go by) who just re-murdered most of a race, and no can think of a reason why Jon or whoever might want to remind the galaxy that he's not all Kryptonian? That might be Jon from the future and that scar might be the only thing that keeps him from being cleansed.

    Or it might just signify his ability as a glass cannon? We don't really know what the questions are fun.
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  3. #2463
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    Honestly I don't see that idea as being something that is coming out of left field at all. Clark, Lois and Jon have spent the last ten year, most of which we never see mind you, trying to be a "normal" family or at the very least to be as "normal" as possible. Even in Tomasi's and Jurgen's runs though we can clearly see that their attempts at being a "normal" family were all for naught and that they are really not the typical family at all. I think Bendis is merely trying to put more of a focus on that aspect of their lives. That said I still wouldn't mind seeing times where their family is able to occasionally be just a "normal" one as a sort of breather between epic adventures and various villains attacking Superman.
    That's my feeling, as well. They're not normal, but they have their version of it (to an extent) and an idea that they'd like to strive for when it's possible. And at times? Yeah they absolutely should have it. At the same time, they can embrace the oddities and roll with that (and all laugh about it, etc) as well, because that's going to be the way things are 70+% of the time.

    My main concern come from aging him up so he's "easier to write" or something. I like that he's a good entry point for young readers, and I like that it provides a great balance for what people perceive as a very "dad" mentality for Superman by default anyway - now it makes that even more natural, and I'd hate to lose that to "Super teen/pre-teen angst" stories or things like that. Eventually, sure, but since this isn't real life, the time table can be widened (as it has been for Superman up to this point, anyway).
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  4. #2464
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I still don't think the aging up is permanent anyway. At least not to the capacity that he looks in that concept drawing. He easily looks mid-to-late teens there in regards to his height and build, and as a permanent age, that would destroy his dynamic with Damian long-term which I highly doubt they want to do.

    Further I highly doubt any "evil Jon" scenarios. That was already done to death in the previous runs. A scar, and noting that its a reminder of his human side, can just as easily mean that he got it a heroic way, and that its also simply a reminder to him that he has more vulnerabilities than his father does. That he has a different path to trek in regards to growing as a hero, different than the path of his father's. None of those things of which are ncessarily a bad thing. Just a different thing.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-13-2018 at 04:57 PM.
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  5. #2465
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    And in regards to the scar and what it means? Why are people assuming he put it there himself? Why are people assuming he's ashamed of being half human? There's a space raciest out there (with whole intergalactic Illuminati that just let his actions and ravings go by) who just re-murdered most of a race, and no can think of a reason why Jon or whoever might want to remind the galaxy that he's not all Kryptonian? That might be Jon from the future and that scar might be the only thing that keeps him from being cleansed.

    Or it might just signify his ability as a glass cannon? We don't really know what the questions are fun.
    Where did anyone say he put it there himself? I know it wasn't me that said that and I'm also not assuming that he would be ashamed of being part human only that that type of story line could be a POSSIBLE direction this could go in. There's nothing more to it then a bit of speculation on my part but I guess since it contrary to other opinions people want to jump me over it.
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  6. #2466
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I still don't think the aging up is permanent anyway. At least not to the capacity that he looks in that concept drawing. He easily looks mid-to-late teens there in regards to his height and build, and as a permanent age, that would destroy his dynamic with Damian long-term which I highly doubt they want to do.

    Further I highly doubt any "evil Jon" scenarios. That was already done to death in the previous runs. A scar, and noting that its a reminder of his human side, can just as easily mean that he got it a heroic way, and that its also simply a reminder to him that he has more vulnerabilities than his father does. That he has a different path to trek in regards to growing as a hero, different than the path of his father's. None of those things of which are ncessarily a bad thing. Just a different thing.
    True enough. He could very well have gotten it heroically and it could also very well simply be a reminder that he has more vulnerabilities then his father. I was just pointing out the other end of that spectrum as being something that could be possible as well. At this point one bit of speculation is as valid as another one since we have no more information at hand at this point.
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  7. #2467
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    Where did anyone say he put it there himself? I know it wasn't me that said that and I'm also not assuming that he would be ashamed of being part human only that that type of story line could be a POSSIBLE direction this could go in. There's nothing more to it then a bit of speculation on my part but I guess since it contrary to other opinions people want to jump me over it.
    I never said you personally. I was making a generalized statement based on a combination of what has been said here and one the original IG post by Bendis. I mean no disrespect, but if I was speaking in direct response to you then I'd say it/reply with a quote from you, so please don't take it personally. I for one welcome yours and anyone else's speculation on this or any other matter regarding Superman. That's like a big reason why I even post or come to this site.

    Anyways, I very much apologize if my post made you feel as if your opinion were under siege because that wasn't the intention at all. As stated above, the intention was a general counter point to the general idea, and I'd be all about discussing it with you or anyone else. I know literally as much as you or anyone else that doesn't work at DC comics.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 06-13-2018 at 07:05 PM.
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  8. #2468
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    It’s more likely this is a “future Jon” glimpse, like Damien Batman. Ageing Jon would be the dumbest thing Bendis could do. It was terrible with Chris and it would be terrible here. But it’s more likely to be a future glimpse of Jon.

  9. #2469
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I never said you personally. I was making a generalized statement based on a combination of what has been said here and one the original IG post by Bendis. I mean no disrespect, but if I was speaking in direct response to you then I'd say it/reply with a quote from you, so please don't take it personally. I for one welcome yours and anyone else's speculation on this or any other matter regarding Superman. That's like a big reason why I even post or come to this site.

    Anyways, I very much apologize if my post made you feel as if your opinion were under siege because that wasn't the intention at all. As stated above, the intention was a general counter point to the general idea, and I'd be all about discussing it with you or anyone else. I know literally as much as you or anyone else that doesn't work at DC comics.
    That last bit was just me being a bit facetious. Guess my emoji didn't make that clear enough. Anyway no worries. To be honest with you I hope it doesn't go that route and that something else entirely is afoot here. I'd love to see some interesting character development with Jon that doesn't involve the same tired old tropes. (I'd love to see that with everyone to be honest from Clark and his family down to the Planet's staff.) That being said I thought it best to at least acknowledge the possibility and to throw it out there anyway.
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  10. #2470
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    Variants coming for Action Comics#1001 Superman#1

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  11. #2471
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I guess I'm going to be the only one who doesn't like the new look for Jon. Why exactly does Jon need such a visible sign as a reminder that he is half human? And why a scarred face of all things? This sounds to me like a set up for a "Jon begins to resent his half human heritage" type of storyline and frankly I've absolutely no interest in that kind of story.
    You're not the only one. I don't like it either (would be fine for an Elseworlds/alternate Earth character) nor do I like the idea that Jon needs a visible sign to "remind him" that he's half-human? This is Bendis' MO: remind the audience of things they already know and that the character knows in the most obvious and melodramatic way possible. Too bad Archie Comics didn't scoop Bendis up, this kind of teen melodrama crap is right up his alley.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Yeah, I'm hoping this is for an "alt future" or "future visit" storyline. Yes, kids grow up fast, but in comics terms, he and Damian should stay kids for a decent while, imo. Let them milk (no pun intended) more stories from this age/phase before pushing them off to the next one. We have plenty of adult and teen superheroes.
    Jon and Damien would remain kids for a while were it not for DiDio. This is why Super Sons was cancelled and I'd not be surprised if this is a permanent thing during Bendis' run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Hmm...not sure how sold I am on this yet, on one hand it shows the growth spurt reference was humorous foreshadowing, on the other hand...growing Jon up just seems like such a redundant practice as we already went through this in pre-flashpoint with Chris...and the fact he was deaged eventually makes me think this particular change won't be long for this world either, unless he is from the future and we get to see more of what made Jon like this in the present during the events of Superman.

    So it looks like the big drama in Lois and Clark's marriage may be coming to terms with the idea they've missed out on spending time with Jon during his most progressive years, missing out on his latter phase of his childhood and adolescence, unable to guide him, and he comes back having learned mostly under Oz, leading to clashes with his parents. Also they will have to find a way of explaining what happened to their son to their friends, maybe that's why Lois can't face anyone at the Daily Planet? How do you explain that your son is basically cut out of your life long term without making anyone think he's dead or kidnapped?
    If this is the case, it's pure garbage IMO. It's cheap melodrama designed to create remorse and guilt and angst for characters that shouldn't be mired in such emotions. They can experience moments of these feelings, but Superman, Lois, and Jon are about overcoming, about positivity, inspiration, and aspiration. This reeks of the DiDio/David Goyer school of thought that essentially says every character must face trauma and sacrifice because that's what makes Batman cool, and every other character should be like Batman. Pure bullshit that I thought we'd moved beyond with Rebirth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truman Burbank View Post
    If this is the direction they're going, then someone needs to be fired.
    Those people are Dan DiDio and Jim Lee. Yet DiDio's more hands-on than ever and Lee has been promoted. It's a shit-show over there and the only hope is that the new AT&T overlords will come in an clean house. Not likely to happen anytime soon, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Here's a thought...lets actually see where this is going before just assuming things. When Bendis was announced people automatically assumed either Lois or Jon or both were being killed off or erased or completely sidelined. Now that isn't the case, one teaser image out of context and then the assumption is " oh no! They're making Jon evil!" Its starting to feel like we're hastily jumping to conclusions in the hopes of affirmation of peoples biases against Bendis and his take over of Superman.

    Is it possible that is the direction Bendis is going? Yeah. However I don't think he's that stupid. He said recently naysayers who worry about how he will handle Jon and Lois will end up apologizing soon. I don't think he could possibly think making Jon evil would please most or any of the naysayers. I know Bendis track record has been spotty of late, but I seriously doubt he's that tone deaf or arrogant. If he is...then he'll deserve what backlash he would get. I would probably be leading such a movement.

    In the meantime though, let's all just chill a bit.
    No offense, but I'm not going to "chill a bit." I'm sick and tired of DiDio and other DC execs/creators constantly ****ing around with Superman and his mythology and universe simply because they feel the character is flawed as is and needs to be constantly updated.

    I'm not going to tolerate any further changes or "tweaks" in this vein, even if they're going to be undone at some later point. If that's the case, none of these "bold changes" or "new directions" have any real meaning. Seems to me many Superman fans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome and can't recognize that this needs to stop and that they have the power to change it. Continually making apologies for DC shitting all over Superman every few years will NEVER lead to a consistent tone and history for Superman.

    Bendis was a terrible pick for Superman and despite his assertions to the contrary (which all sound like lies to someone that's followed him interviews for years), he very likely didn't "ask" for Superman. DiDio likely had the idea to have Bendis come aboard and "shake things up" after two years of solid stories that restored the iconic Superman to the comics after a 5 year absence.

    When will it be enough for fans to stand up and refuse to let this happen? DiDio needs to go, but since that's outside of our power, we need to send a message that we will not support his constant meddling with the first and greatest superhero.

  12. #2472
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
    You're not the only one. I don't like it either (would be fine for an Elseworlds/alternate Earth character) nor do I like the idea that Jon needs a visible sign to "remind him" that he's half-human? This is Bendis' MO: remind the audience of things they already know and that the character knows in the most obvious and melodramatic way possible. Too bad Archie Comics didn't scoop Bendis up, this kind of teen melodrama crap is right up his alley.



    Jon and Damien would remain kids for a while were it not for DiDio. This is why Super Sons was cancelled and I'd not be surprised if this is a permanent thing during Bendis' run.



    If this is the case, it's pure garbage IMO. It's cheap melodrama designed to create remorse and guilt and angst for characters that shouldn't be mired in such emotions. They can experience moments of these feelings, but Superman, Lois, and Jon are about overcoming, about positivity, inspiration, and aspiration. This reeks of the DiDio/David Goyer school of thought that essentially says every character must face trauma and sacrifice because that's what makes Batman cool, and every other character should be like Batman. Pure bullshit that I thought we'd moved beyond with Rebirth.



    Those people are Dan DiDio and Jim Lee. Yet DiDio's more hands-on than ever and Lee has been promoted. It's a shit-show over there and the only hope is that the new AT&T overlords will come in an clean house. Not likely to happen anytime soon, though.



    No offense, but I'm not going to "chill a bit." I'm sick and tired of DiDio and other DC execs/creators constantly ****ing around with Superman and his mythology and universe simply because they feel the character is flawed as is and needs to be constantly updated.

    I'm not going to tolerate any further changes or "tweaks" in this vein, even if they're going to be undone at some later point. If that's the case, none of these "bold changes" or "new directions" have any real meaning. Seems to me many Superman fans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome and can't recognize that this needs to stop and that they have the power to change it. Continually making apologies for DC shitting all over Superman every few years will NEVER lead to a consistent tone and history for Superman.

    Bendis was a terrible pick for Superman and despite his assertions to the contrary (which all sound like lies to someone that's followed him interviews for years), he very likely didn't "ask" for Superman. DiDio likely had the idea to have Bendis come aboard and "shake things up" after two years of solid stories that restored the iconic Superman to the comics after a 5 year absence.

    When will it be enough for fans to stand up and refuse to let this happen? DiDio needs to go, but since that's outside of our power, we need to send a message that we will not support his constant meddling with the first and greatest superhero.

    But right now it's speculation - on all our parts. Nothing has happened, and doing some of these things would fly in the face of Bendis's claims that he'll prove himself to fans of the Super-family. So far, it's been fine - very good, even. I was unsure about Bendis and hated losing Jurgens on Superman, but he's been doing well and it's even been refreshing. It may not stick, but that's been my reaction so far.

    Now, if they actually do a lot of this, I agree that it would spoil a lot of what they'd built up in "Rebirth". I'm not a huge fan of Didio, either... but I'm not seeing anything yet that's setting off alarm bells. Just things that might be concerning. Once we have more info, that might be the case, but I don't know yet - nobody does.
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  13. #2473
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    I'd say good luck with getting people to boycott the upcoming run, but really I can only wish luck to positive aspirations. Bendis did a great job with the Time interview and I enjoy outlets such as Time and Forbes stopping to talk comics. All you can do is shoot for high attention and then try to tell the best story you can once eyes are on you. For whatever quirks or plot points some may end up not liking, I think it's more than clear that he's really trying. I wish him the best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    The idea that the past ten years in the lore for Superman and family were rather normal or traditional is, to me, the oddity. Bendis making it more unorthodox is what makes vastly more sense from my vantage point. Really he shouldn't have to be establishing this at all as it should have already been established before. The way I see it, from the second Lois agrees to go on a first date with Clark, nothing about their courtship and life together should be normal or even close to being what one would consider a traditional life. Its not like I can't imagine it being something Clark would at times like to have (though I also like to imagine there's another side of Clark that likes the unorthodox nature of their lives). And try to get as close as possible to what can be their normal. But traditional normal just shouldn't be able to be achieved, not with what Superman is and what he does daily.

    Its even a stretch to me that they made it ten years without Jon realizing something was up, now that the history is such that this Superman is the one and only Superman and he wasn't a hidden secondary option like in the original L&C series when things were still New 52.

    I think the jump from normal was supposed to be emphasized in the dawn of Superboy and the Rebirth chapters. Being out of the spotlight made it a lot easier to try for a normal life, and years of experience were enough to protect Jon from stumbling onto the truth before it was time, although he did have suspicions.

  14. #2474
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter if its just speculation or not. When one has an ax to grind, and especially when what they're opposed to is thus far overwhelmingly critically and fan praised, they'll grab anything in their anger to support that anger fuller.


    And I'm not judging (though I AM getting a little tired of the "sheep" insinuations towards others, that's a line). I've been there. I've majorly disliked moves in the recent past that were largely lauded and thus left me out in the cold. Its not a good feeling. But it also leads to paper-thin arguments, contradictions, and double-standards and isn't fair to the creator(s).
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    While I'm worried and have been just as guilty of speculating worst case scenarios, I know Bendis is capable of a lot of good and bad and so it becomes sort of fascinating to see which side some are falling on as the story goes...you start to see the parts that annoy, and you see the effect his work has to turn people over to him. He's always been polarizing and it's good to see that hasn't diminished in effect over time.

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