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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    It was a fake-out in the sense that #39 was purposely crafted to make it look like Diana was into Bruce from the very get-go, not just in those end panels. From the moment she shows up the writing and art paint her in a highly sexualized and flirty manner toward Bruce. All meant to set up that last panel, which now is shown was never intended to lead to anything. Thus a fake out. This is even more apparent with Diana's characterization in this issue, with her just treating Bruce like a normal friend again and acting like herself after the cliffhanger is settled. All the sexual suggestion from Wonder Woman's characterization is gone, because its not needed anymore to facilitate the intended fakery of #39.


    Would love to actually see Jumpa. Everyone else has their super pets back in some form.
    If #39 didn't have the waterfall scene and the last two panels I wouldn't have thought she was being sexualized. I liked the image of her waiting at the bat signal and that she thought it would be fun to use and I liked when she was joking a little on his outifit (not really the outfit but the look of men fighting to her) but then turning around on it later when they were in the midst of the battle because now it was helpful. I'll have to read it again, but really thought quite a few panels were just fine.

  2. #77
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    So did they do stuff or not? I'm really not clear from Bruce's comment about not being "good enough". Can someone explain to me? Thanks.

  3. #78
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Nope. They both rejected the kiss (well Bruce first of course), and they remained true to their own lovers. Bruce didn't feel he was good enough for that moment of temptation though.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Nope. They both rejected the kiss (well Bruce first of course), and they remained true to their own lovers. Bruce didn't feel he was good enough for that moment of temptation though.
    It seems like he's being a little dramatic about it, but I got it. Thanks.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by blunt_eastwood View Post
    So did they do stuff or not? I'm really not clear from Bruce's comment about not being "good enough". Can someone explain to me? Thanks.
    They were both tempted but neither closed the final distance. Bruce spoke out loud his reason first but since both hesitated in making the final move I consider it an equal rejection. His not good enough is his personal guilt that he thought about it. Selina's "Okay" accepted it at that.

    Edit: yes he was being a little dramatic. But also being honest to his partner about something he felt bad (I guess?) about rather than trying to ignore it. Which I think is nice.
    Last edited by K Nikk; 02-07-2018 at 11:50 AM.

  6. #81
    THE RED HOOD JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Nikk View Post
    If #39 didn't have the waterfall scene and the last two panels I wouldn't have thought she was being sexualized. I liked the image of her waiting at the bat signal and that she thought it would be fun to use and I liked when she was joking a little on his outifit (not really the outfit but the look of men fighting to her) but then turning around on it later when they were in the midst of the battle because now it was helpful. I'll have to read it again, but really thought quite a few panels were just fine.
    Up until the last two panels of #39 the only time I thought she was being intentionally flirty was the waterfall scene. I didn't react the same way to the way she was drawn or the things she said anywhere else. Just in those two instances.

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  7. #82
    Mighty Member WontonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Nikk View Post
    They were both tempted but neither closed the final distance. Bruce spoke out loud his reason first but since both hesitated in making the final move I consider it an equal rejection. His not good enough is his personal guilt that he thought about it. Selina's "Okay" accepted it at that.

    Edit: yes he was being a little dramatic. But also being honest to his partner about something he felt bad (I guess?) about rather than trying to ignore it. Which I think is nice.
    It's Bruce so it made sense that he would think that. Bruce is way harder on himself than other people are on themselves for even lesser mistakes.

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    It was a fake-out in the sense that #39 was purposely crafted to make it look like Diana was into Bruce from the very get-go, not just in those end panels. From the moment she shows up the writing and art paint her in a highly sexualized and flirty manner toward Bruce. All meant to set up that last panel, which now is shown was never intended to lead to anything. Thus a fake out. This is even more apparent with Diana's characterization in this issue, with her just treating Bruce like a normal friend again, finally getting in a mention that she too was a spoken for woman, and acting like herself after the cliffhanger is settled. All the sexual suggestion from Wonder Woman's characterization is gone, because its not needed anymore to facilitate the intended fakery of #39.
    So he shot down the situation and she became herself. The OCC behaviour seized and she started acting the way she should have been from the get go like a normal friend. The sexual tension was gone, we were shown the REAL Diana and the SuperFriends as billed and paid for.

    After Bruce pulled back not Diana, He put a stop to it.

    Thank you @ Sacred Knight

  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    At least they got the bullshit cliffhanger stuff out of the way in the first few pages, and Diana was decent the rest of it. Not perfect by any means, but this could have been so much worse.

    King also established that kangas are back in continuity. For that alone, he is forgiven and I would be down for him writing Wonder Woman more in the future.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    So he shot down the situation and she became herself. The OCC behaviour seized and she started acting the way she should have been from the get go like a normal friend. The sexual tension was gone, we were shown the REAL Diana and the SuperFriends as billed and paid for.

    After Bruce pulled back not Diana, He put a stop to it.

    Thank you @ Sacred Knight
    I thought they both hesitated and Bruce just spoke first. He wasn't pushing her off of him or anything.

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Nikk View Post
    I liked that too. And their conversation about their pets. "I miss my kangaroo... I don't talk about it... Her name is Jumpa". Wish we could have gotten more of that.
    Thatís not good writing, tho. Tumbler algorithm

    Some good some bad, like all of Kings issues.

    More bashing of men. Batmanís, stupid pointy ears, Superman lame catch phrase, and Gordonís oh so boring speech. Men are, just, like, the Worst.

    So Batman and WW remember all 40 years? That would have a profound affect on them I suppose.

  12. #87
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Nikk View Post
    I thought they both hesitated and Bruce just spoke first. He wasn't pushing her off of him or anything.
    That. such a small detail but it makes a world of difference Having Bruce be the one who spoke first. Having Diana been the one to say stop or we can't or whatever would have gone a long way in undoing a lot of the issues with her characterisation in 39. But her role here was relationship foil. She was temptation for Bruce to overcome to prove his dedication regardless of how contradictory the portrayal was to her canon personality.

    This role could have gone to any number of actual canon exes or even a new character created for this arc [just like the Gentleman, this new realm] it did not have to be OCC Diana.

    But then I remembered this

    This a post from 39 discussion from a Cat fan

    Well that's usually because she is presented as the "perfect woman". Or as this "loving woman who has all this goodness in her heart". When others see her, or other women are compared to her, you can see THEM vs HER.

    It's like Catwoman is completely badass and Lois Lane is kick-ass. Completely can hold their own ON their own and are highly compatible with their respective romantic partners. BUT when they are put right up by Wonder Woman, you see them in a different light. You see them as "normal".

    That's how they push Wondey. At least in the books. Now mainstream adaptations is a different story.

    And for the record, I think they are ALL fantastic women. I'm just saying that Wondey is that woman that all woman can sometimes compare themselves to. I see this happen in real life ALL the time.



    Why have him resist the temptations of any old regular woman when you can have The perfect woman.

    Accurate characterisation be damned.

    Her role here much like WW being a character that fosters a divisive Them v her feeling or any sort of feeling aside from empowerment, sisterhood, strength, love and acceptance is the exact opposite of everything her character is about.
    Last edited by dietrich; 02-07-2018 at 04:00 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    That. such a small detail but it makes a world of difference Having Bruce be the one who spoke first. Having Diana been the one to say stop or we can't or whatever would have gone a long way in undoing a lot of the issues with her characterisation in 39. But her role here was relationship foil. She was temptation for Bruce to overcome to prove his dedication regardless of how contradictory the portrayal was to her canon personality.

    This role could have gone to any number of actual canon exes or even a new character created for this arc [just like the Gentleman, this new realm] it did not have to be OCC Diana.

    But then I remembered this

    This a post from 39 discussion from a Cat fan

    Well that's usually because she is presented as the "perfect woman". Or as this "loving woman who has all this goodness in her heart". When others see her, or other women are compared to her, you can see THEM vs HER.

    It's like Catwoman is completely badass and Lois Lane is kick-ass. Completely can hold their own ON their own and are highly compatible with their respective romantic partners. BUT when they are put right up by Wonder Woman, you see them in a different light. You see them as "normal".

    That's how they push Wondey. At least in the books. Now mainstream adaptations is a different story.

    And for the record, I think they are ALL fantastic women. I'm just saying that Wondey is that woman that all woman can sometimes compare themselves to. I see this happen in real life ALL the time.



    Why have him resist the temptations of any old regular woman when you can have The perfect woman.

    Accurate characterisation be damned.
    It was certainly an uncomfortable situation and maybe would have worked better in live action where the hesitancy and ridiculousness can be more obvious - that has happened in comedies before where friends think they should kiss for some reason and just can't bring themselves to cause it is weird - they get close but it's more like playing chicken than anything. I wish he didn't do this scene but since it was done I saw her as resisting temptation too and thinking about Steve and so I guess I empathized with her too here and not just him. I think I empathized most with them laughing about the weirdness of the situation.

    On another level I think I also got out of this is that they can be both attractive, and be just friends. They didn't ignore that it was possible to be attracted to each other but also showed they could get past that relatively easy and is no barrier to friendship. People say too much that you can't be just friends with people you are attracted to, that there will always be an undercurrent of tension destabilizing it, but this feels like that tension was addressed and then deflated. Hard to explain I guess but in a way now that I'm talking about it I feel seeing Diana and Bruce acknowledge an attraction, step up to it, and then step back from it got them over a hump. There was an ease to their interactions afterwards that I don't think I have seen with them before in other appearances. Maybe someone can point me in direction of some other appearances where their friendship is more strongly highlighted. .

    Anyway, a lot of that doesn't really have to do with Selina at all.

    My opinion is not set in stone. My impressions may change again the more I read. But right now even my initial discomfort with the situation is fading a little when I look at it as an opportunity to get Batman and Wonder Woman into a friendship that more closely resembles Batman and Superman by deflating whatever tension their potential attraction might have caused. Their talk actually feels even closer than bat-super considering how genuinely they were talking about the things and people they missed, they were showing their vulnerabilities, whereas batman and superman were still sort of competing with each other in their interaction.

    I know I'm probably on the wrong side of this.

  14. #89
    Mighty Member WontonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    At least they got the bullshit cliffhanger stuff out of the way in the first few pages, and Diana was decent the rest of it. Not perfect by any means, but this could have been so much worse.

    King also established that kangas are back in continuity. For that alone, he is forgiven and I would be down for him writing Wonder Woman more in the future.
    He will. I mean I guess in Issue #43.

  15. #90
    Mighty Member WontonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    That. such a small detail but it makes a world of difference Having Bruce be the one who spoke first. Having Diana been the one to say stop or we can't or whatever would have gone a long way in undoing a lot of the issues with her characterisation in 39. But her role here was relationship foil. She was temptation for Bruce to overcome to prove his dedication regardless of how contradictory the portrayal was to her canon personality.

    This role could have gone to any number of actual canon exes or even a new character created for this arc [just like the Gentleman, this new realm] it did not have to be OCC Diana.

    But then I remembered this

    This a post from 39 discussion from a Cat fan

    Well that's usually because she is presented as the "perfect woman". Or as this "loving woman who has all this goodness in her heart". When others see her, or other women are compared to her, you can see THEM vs HER.

    It's like Catwoman is completely badass and Lois Lane is kick-ass. Completely can hold their own ON their own and are highly compatible with their respective romantic partners. BUT when they are put right up by Wonder Woman, you see them in a different light. You see them as "normal".

    That's how they push Wondey. At least in the books. Now mainstream adaptations is a different story.

    And for the record, I think they are ALL fantastic women. I'm just saying that Wondey is that woman that all woman can sometimes compare themselves to. I see this happen in real life ALL the time.



    Why have him resist the temptations of any old regular woman when you can have The perfect woman.

    Accurate characterisation be damned.

    Her role here much like WW being a character that fosters a divisive Them v her feeling or any sort of feeling aside from empowerment, sisterhood, strength, love and acceptance is the exact opposite of everything her character is about.
    Hey, I think that was my post you quoted.

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