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  1. #76
    Mighty Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Oh, too true. I think that in part it was because they couldn't finish what they'd started and in the end had to basically cobble a film together out of the pieces they had.

    as for 3, I really loved the boiling acid bit.

  2. #77
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Here is a question and this seems to be the best thread to ask it in. In Superman IV Lex Luthor has a nephew named Lenny. Who is Lenny the son of? Is Lenny the son of Lena Luthor? Or does Lex also have a brother?

  3. #78
    Mighty Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    At some point Lex mentions Lenny is the son of his sister.... that's it.

  4. #79
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    At some point Lex mentions Lenny is the son of his sister.... that's it.
    So in the meta I guess Lenny is the son of Lena.

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    So in the meta I guess Lenny is the son of Lena.
    I guess, bringing outside sources into it, it would be Lena Luthor though I doubt anyone making the movie knew who she was.
    Superman was a beacon to the world.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    I remember in the theater in 1979 someone going, "That's an error. Why is Jor-El wearing the Superman symbol?" I didn't totally get it myself until I read a review and also read the book about the making of the movie since it's never verbally explained in the movie. While other members of the council were wearing symbols, they weren't equivalents to English letters and I didn't get it. But it was a perfect setup for Lois Lane to be the one that gives him a name.

    Oh yes, Artificial Intelligence Jor-El starts here for better or worse overall though I suspect they had no idea it would permeate the comics too. I don't know if Donner and company realized comics would do reboots that would even make it possible to change that in the comics.

    Gene Hackman doesn't get enough credit for his portrayal of Lex Luthor. I know there are people who consider it the worst aspect of the movie but I also knew people who felt the first hour was so "heavy" that it desperately needed to lighten up.

    .
    The problem with that is, the comedy should have come from somewhere else, not Lex, it really undermined him as a villain.

    Lex's plan makes no sense, its a pretty bad villain plan and he doesn't seem that smart, he puts Otis in charge of tasks he clearly can't handle, gives Miss Tessmacher a reason to betray him for no reason, if Lex had aimed that second nuke at a different city, one where Tessmacher's mother didn't live, he would have won. He doesn't seem like the competent uber genius from the comics, he seems like a silly used car salesman and all the other movie Lex Luthors copy that same formula, so I think this version of Lex had a bad impact on the character. I easily liked Zod more Lex in these films, he was over the top, but still menacing, this version of Lex does not seem to be in Superman's league.

    I still like this movie, but Lex Luthor and the time travel are bad plot points that makes me take some points off.

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    The problem with that is, the comedy should have come from somewhere else, not Lex, it really undermined him as a villain.

    Lex's plan makes no sense, its a pretty bad villain plan and he doesn't seem that smart, he puts Otis in charge of tasks he clearly can't handle, gives Miss Tessmacher a reason to betray him for no reason, if Lex had aimed that second nuke at a different city, one where Tessmacher's mother didn't live, he would have won. He doesn't seem like the competent uber genius from the comics, he seems like a silly used car salesman and all the other movie Lex Luthors copy that same formula, so I think this version of Lex had a bad impact on the character. I easily liked Zod more Lex in these films, he was over the top, but still menacing, this version of Lex does not seem to be in Superman's league.

    I still like this movie, but Lex Luthor and the time travel are bad plot points that makes me take some points off.
    It's interesting that all of the movie versions more or less are influenced by the Donner/ Hackman version. Spacey's did a lot to remove the veneer and show the monster inside. On the other hand, it also did little more than remove every shred of charm and wit and leave nothing but malice. Eisenberg's is supposed to be dark funny but is still "under the influence".

    It seems to be the television versions that escape that fate. I have just started watching "Lois and Clark" and haven't seen enough to be sure but it seems the John Shea version is a much more believable opponent and not played just for comedy and Michael Rosenbaum's is just the best one yet albeit his entire run is leading up to the Lex Luthor we think of. I'd also say that John Glover's Lionel Luthor was a stand-in for the adult Lex Luthor who didn't exist yet. Either of them could qualify as the best portrayal of Luthor.
    Superman was a beacon to the world.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    It's interesting that all of the movie versions more or less are influenced by the Donner/ Hackman version. Spacey's did a lot to remove the veneer and show the monster inside. On the other hand, it also did little more than remove every shred of charm and wit and leave nothing but malice. Eisenberg's is supposed to be dark funny but is still "under the influence".

    It seems to be the television versions that escape that fate. I have just started watching "Lois and Clark" and haven't seen enough to be sure but it seems the John Shea version is a much more believable opponent and not played just for comedy and Michael Rosenbaum's is just the best one yet albeit his entire run is leading up to the Lex Luthor we think of. I'd also say that John Glover's Lionel Luthor was a stand-in for the adult Lex Luthor who didn't exist yet. Either of them could qualify as the best portrayal of Luthor.
    I like TV versions of Lex better (Smallville, STAS, Lois and Clark) because he always seems vastly more competent on TV then in the films.

    Spacey's Lex Luthor is still too campy for my taste, him bilking an old widow out of her mommy made him seem sleazy, but also made him seem less competent, because he did not earn his own fortune from the ground up. Lex with a wig collection and screaming ''wrong'' at Lois made him seem like a clown and his plan is worse then the plan that Hackman Lex came up with. The less said about Eisenberg Lex, the better.

    The thing is Lex Luthor is not the Joker, he should not be cracking jokes all the time or try to kill millions of people for no reason. My ideal Lex Luthor is blend between a brilliant scientist, business man and strategist. He has a plan that serves a logical goal (he couch his goal in seeming pro humanist rhetoric, but it is ultimately selfish) and play speed chess to move his plan along, every move Superman makes, Lex has a counter move. This is why Lex is a threat despite being just a human being.

    If you want Superman to fight a campy villain, put in Prankster in the first 5 minutes of a film and have Superman defeat him, get your comic relief there, instead from Lex.

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