View Poll Results: Which One Is The Lucky Girl?

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  • Batgirl - Barbara Gordon

    61 51.26%
  • Starfire - Koriand'r

    58 48.74%
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  1. #61
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    It`s Wally, obviously.

    Just hook him up with Barbara and marry them. I am sick to death of the go go - no go between the two. Let them get bored with each other and stop having Kory getting the leftovers.

    #KoryandRoyTeam.

  2. #62
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Babs. The pairing was imprinted upon my mind at a very early age with B:TAS and (god help me) Batman & Robin. So much so that when I eventually gravitated to the mainstream comics, the idea that Babs was older than Dick and was at times viewed as his "big sister figure" was very strange to me. I don't need them to be together now, and it's probably for the best to avoid tedious will they/won't they crap, but she's his endgame for me if such a thing ever happens.

    I'm very partial to Kory as well, as I watched the TT cartoon when it first came out. But having read the original NTT run, I view the romance as still important and what Dick needed at that time in his life, but I don't view it as a love that can last. They are just too fundamentally different; Kory is very passionate and open, and while Dick isn't as introverted with his feelings as Bruce, he's not as uninhibited. He's also always worried she will fly off the handle and kill her opponents, and if he can't completely trust her, the relationship cannot be stable. Dick's closed off nature also wasn't good for Kory either; I don't really see what she got out of the romance other than (presumably) great sex. I don't think the romance was nearly as mature as Wolfman maybe thought it was.

  3. #63
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedQueen View Post
    I think there is a subtle vibe of should he get with a superpowered gf or a more vigilante gf because they both come with different status quos then. We've seen him function and where both relationships thrive, as with Starfire it's a team issues and adventures around the world and in space, while a life with Barbara is more Gotham/Bludhaven centric stories with the Batfam etc and more Batman themes involved.
    I think the sticking point between the two will always be the division between the Batfamily and the Titans when it comes to Dick.
    It's also kind of hard to give Dick a new successful romance considering the connection the fans and writers have to these relationships, so sometimes you might get a Carlie Cooper if they try anything new. Not saying they shouldn't try, I'm just saying I don't want Barbara's revolving door of uninteresting, boring love interests type deal for Dick.
    It's hard to develop genuine, memorable, and believable romance in comics these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    I agree. There was a scene in Red Hood and the Outlaws where Kori has a conversation with Roy Harper (who she is sleeping with/kind-of seeing at the time) where she is confused why it would be an issue for her to sleep with Jason also. She explains that monogamy isn't familiar to her and her people have very different customs. I think she says something about having a hard time telling humans apart, even. Add in her upbringing, and Kori never struck me as the long term monogamous type..
    Lobdell's Kori is very different from the one currently flying around the DCU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    really the storys nature made kori the obvious choice. But the idea that in the longrun Starfire would lose the love she had for just made sense to kori chracters and free spirit, they will always love each other but they wont always be in love with each other. Its happend to them, and it seem most universe has made barbra gordon the end game. I am still reading Dixons Run and they are so clicking with me.
    I dunno, I think it was pretty consistent in Post-Crisis, especially by the end, that Kori would never really get over Dick.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Babs. The pairing was imprinted upon my mind at a very early age with B:TAS and (god help me) Batman & Robin. So much so that when I eventually gravitated to the mainstream comics, the idea that Babs was older than Dick and was at times viewed as his "big sister figure" was very strange to me. I don't need them to be together now, and it's probably for the best to avoid tedious will they/won't they crap, but she's his endgame for me if such a thing ever happens.
    The funny thing to me is that I think, if we go by media depictions, Dick and Kori seems a little more popular and endgame-level then what we usually get with Dick and Babs.

    Young Justice
    is probably the only exception on that front.

    But conversely much more has probably been done with DickxBabs on the comic front.
    I'm very partial to Kory as well, as I watched the TT cartoon when it first came out. But having read the original NTT run, I view the romance as still important and what Dick needed at that time in his life, but I don't view it as a love that can last. They are just too fundamentally different; Kory is very passionate and open, and while Dick isn't as introverted with his feelings as Bruce, he's not as uninhibited. He's also always worried she will fly off the handle and kill her opponents, and if he can't completely trust her, the relationship cannot be stable. Dick's closed off nature also wasn't good for Kory either; I don't really see what she got out of the romance other than (presumably) great sex. I don't think the romance was nearly as mature as Wolfman maybe thought it was.
    I've always thought Dick and Kori were very compatible because of the similarities they share in personality and in the small differences between them that they bring into the relationship, with that also creating believable conflict for their relationship.

  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The funny thing to me is that I think, if we go by media depictions, Dick and Kori seems a little more popular and endgame-level then what we usually get with Dick and Babs.

    Young Justice
    is probably the only exception on that front.

    But conversely much more has probably been done with DickxBabs on the comic front.
    Maybe currently, but I think B:TAS is bigger than anything Dick/Kory has appeared in with the exception of the TT cartoon. I think it's the main reason the ship even became as popular as it has. YJ, to me, also seems like it has a bigger following than any of the DTVs that have come out recently.

    All this might change a with the live action TT show coming out, but then again, who knows what the DCEU has in store for Dick/Babs if it can get its shit together?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I've always thought Dick and Kori were very compatible because of the similarities they share in personality and in the small differences between them that they bring into the relationship, with that also creating believable conflict for their relationship.
    I'm not so sure. There was that whole period where Dick was pushing himself to emulate Bruce and completely failing because he's not the same kind of person, and he pushed Kory away. And even unintentionally made her feel like she was being condescended to and that he considered her unintelligent and unstable because she's from a very emotional, war-capable race. Dick got his act together eventually and apologized, but this was all at the beginning of their relationship and it doesn't strike me as a healthy foundation for them in the long term. Even Donna, one of Dick's closest friends, voiced her concerns that Dick may not be a healthy option for Kory.

  5. #65
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Maybe currently, but I think B:TAS is bigger than anything Dick/Kory has appeared in with the exception of the TT cartoon. I think it's the main reason the ship even became as popular as it has. YJ, to me, also seems like it has a bigger following than any of the DTVs that have come out recently.
    I would say the Teen Titans cartoon is on par with B:TAS as far as being a seminal and iconic show for the property it was adapting, and I think Dick and Starfire's relationship in that cartoon was more a little more relavent and prominent then Dick and Babs' was in B:TAS or the DCAU as a whole.

    Judas Contract
    seems to have had a very positive response to it, especially compared to the reception of the other recent DTV's, and Dick and Kori's relationship is pretty prominent in that.
    All this might change a with the live action TT show coming out, but then again, who knows what the DCEU has in store for Dick/Babs if it can get its shit together?
    If the DCEU did a Titans movie I would probably expect Dick and Kori's relationship to get acknowledged there.
    I'm not so sure. There was that whole period where Dick was pushing himself to emulate Bruce and completely failing because he's not the same kind of person, and he pushed Kory away. And even unintentionally made her feel like she was being condescended to and that he considered her unintelligent and unstable because she's from a very emotional, war-capable race. Dick got his act together eventually and apologized, but this was all at the beginning of their relationship and it doesn't strike me as a healthy foundation for them in the long term. Even Donna, one of Dick's closest friends, voiced her concerns that Dick may not be a healthy option for Kory.
    That's the same thing that broke him and Babs up in the comics, as I recall.

  6. #66
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    In TTGo Dick's endgame is Babs, just saying.

  7. #67
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I would say the Teen Titans cartoon is on par with B:TAS as far as being a seminal and iconic show for the property it was adapting, and I think Dick and Starfire's relationship in that cartoon was more a little more relavent and prominent then Dick and Babs' was in B:TAS or the DCAU as a whole.
    That is true, I didn't consider that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Judas Contract seems to have had a very positive response to it, especially compared to the reception of the other recent DTV's, and Dick and Kori's relationship is pretty prominent in that.
    I know the DTVs sell well, but do they reach as wide an audience as the cartoons did? I honestly don't have any interest in them so i don't keep track, but the DTVs have always seemed like a niche thing, and they don't have as wide an appeal among kids for obvious reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    If the DCEU did a Titans movie I would probably expect Dick and Kori's relationship to get acknowledged there.
    With both Nightwing and Batgirl being rumored films and nothing on the Titans front, I lean more towards Dick and Babs getting a shot. But who even knows at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That's the same thing that broke him and Babs up in the comics, as I recall.
    Maybe, but Babs has more of a similar temperament with Dick as they are both part of the Bat-Family. Not exactly the same obviously, but still. She's also not as naive and innocent in some areas as Kory is going to be (as an alien from outside our culture), so the dynamic doesn't seem as one sided.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the sticking point between the two will always be the division between the Batfamily and the Titans when it comes to Dick.

    It's hard to develop genuine, memorable, and believable romance in comics these days.

    Lobdell's Kori is very different from the one currently flying around the DCU.

    I dunno, I think it was pretty consistent in Post-Crisis, especially by the end, that Kori would never really get over Dick.

    The funny thing to me is that I think, if we go by media depictions, Dick and Kori seems a little more popular and endgame-level then what we usually get with Dick and Babs.
    [I]
    .
    Aside From TT what other media has ended with Kori? and that wasnt an ending so much as it was a beginning

  9. #69

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    I definitely went with Kory, my experience with DickBabs stories have been hit or very big misses. I actually just wanted to post in this thread to say, first of all, I feel like you'll get somewhat biased answer asking this in the Batman forum (although I know why you'd post here, but I'm just saying), and second, it just feels wrong to see "Richard Grayson" in a thread title. Like, he's Dick, we're not characters in-universe, we're readers. Richard is the name of one Dick's villains now so... let's save that name for him.

    But yeah, back to Kory, I mean... I grew up with the 2003 cartoon. That kinda says it all, I think. The DC You crossover between Starfire and Grayson was cute. I like Rebirth Kory way more than Rebirth Babs (that's not to say I dislike Babs, I really did enjoy that Nightwing guest arc in her book). The Judas Contract DTV was cute in how they showed off Dick and Kory as a couple. That time Kory showed up in Rebirth Nightwing, in #15, was fantastic. She has such a distinctive design, and her colours actually complement the Nightwing colours, imo. And with Kory as his partner, Dick gets to tackle much bigger threats and stories, which is great.

  10. #70
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    Nightwing/Dick Grayson is way more BatFamily than DCU, so I think his "soulmate" — or, who is his Catwoman? — has to be Batgirl/Barbara Gordon. It's the iconic pairing.

    Story-wise, it works better as a Dick+Babs marriage brings Bruce & Jim closer, so they can finally drop the act behind-the-scenes. Jim Gordon would officially be in the BatFamily.

    And now Jim has to admit, being related by-law to The Batman means he's pretty compromised as a Commissioner, which could lead to some kind of new dynamic. Maybe Gordon leaves the force and goes private with a small crew like Bullock and Montoya, working with Batman's tools but more in the open, on the side of the law, as P.I.s Then, the GCPD becomes more in-play as a threat with new Commissioner(s) character(s), similar to the revolving door of Gotham Mayors.
    Last edited by gregpersons; 02-07-2018 at 06:58 PM.

  11. #71
    Mighty Member ayanestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayson - The Dark Heir View Post
    I definitely went with Kory, my experience with DickBabs stories have been hit or very big misses. I actually just wanted to post in this thread to say, first of all, I feel like you'll get somewhat biased answer asking this in the Batman forum (although I know why you'd post here, but I'm just saying), and second, it just feels wrong to see "Richard Grayson" in a thread title. Like, he's Dick, we're not characters in-universe, we're readers. Richard is the name of one Dick's villains now so... let's save that name for him.
    I agree but it's already impressive how many votes Kory got here

  12. #72
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    Batgirl. I thought that Starfire was tim's.

  13. #73
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    I have to go with Babs I love Kori but I feel like her relationship with Dick has been her focus for too many years and kind of stunted her character so I would like to put some distance between the two.

  14. #74
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    Honestly? I'd prefer a "neither" option.

    As long as Babs is holding down her own book, with her own writer who wants to take the character in her own direction, and as long as Dick has his own book with his own writer, a relationship between the two is a logistics nightmare that's just easier to avoid. And I'd rather see that effort and time spent on making the characters, and their books, good; not their relationship to each other. And these two always struck me as strictly a "high school" thing. They had something back in the day. They've grown up. They still care, there's still a spark, but it's not something they want to pursue as adults.

    And Kori.....between the two, she's my preference (so I voted for her). It's a simple matter to put control of the character in Nightwing's editorial and lend her out to a team book (if necessary). I think they have more chemistry than Dick-Babs. I think they're more fun. I think it forces writers to keep in mind that Dick is capable of being more than a street level hero. But its been a long time. Dick's been written as being over Kori for years, and Kori, I think, finally got there (more or less) in recent years. And I think Kori especially would benefit from being written forward, instead of stuck in the past.

    And look at this poll. So far it's virtually even. Fans are split on the issue, so neither option is going to make a majority happy. So I say piss off everyone and go with someone new. Someone who doesn't have a pile of complicated history with Dick. Someone that would encourage new dynamics and new growth (for both characters) instead of backwards moving retreats to the old and familiar. Someone who can challenge him and be challenged by him. Someone who will compliment his skill set and abilities without overlapping them, and who can benefit from him as well. Someone who doesn't have a solo title and thus can easily be folded into Nightwing's editorial. Someone who will keep Nightwing's focus on more than just street level and open up more avenues for his full breath of experience and skills.

    Someone like Power Girl.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  15. #75
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Man, that scene broke my heart back in the day.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

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