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  1. #166
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross61 View Post
    If you were supporting black people in comics than you would be up for all of their experiences and viewpoints.
    But you don't support poorly written not well-thought out books.

    You also wouldn't support books where they keep dragging out the same tired old trope series after series. That either shows no growth in the character, writers that are out of ideas and/or editorial interference that shows they don't know how to manage the characters.

    We want good books with minority characters. There is a difference.
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  2. #167
    The Living Dynamo Black Lightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross61 View Post
    If you were supporting black people in comics than you would be up for all of their experiences and viewpoints.
    Nope. I dictate what I support.

    When you have one black character you're pushing among six other premier white heroes, that one black representative need not be the only one who's restricted.

    Restricted in not being stuck in one form not capable of an alter ego.
    Restricted in not being sure of his own humanity.
    Restricted in not being to "physically interact" with a woman.

    As a Teen Titan, it was no issue. He was strictly a team member. Not a premier character. Not a solo star. At the time John Stewart was the premier black hero at DC. He was the wish fulfilment. But now that he's been shuffled off into the shadows, what other black hero could be what he was?

    After what was shown to us from the reboot, more is to be expected of Cyborg. A more idealized version.

  3. #168
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Of all the racial stereotypes in comics, that's the one I could never understand. Why the need to have Latino heroes speak Spanglish? Do we see Wonder Woman use Greek verbiage in every sentence? Blue Beetle in Injustice 2:

    "I'll teach this mocoso a lesson."

    "You take care of your familia."

    "Jesucristo, Jason, you're gonna nuke us?!"

    lol
    40 years later, it's basically the same as El Dorado:


  4. #169
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross61 View Post
    If you were supporting black people in comics than you would be up for all of their experiences and viewpoints.
    Actually, I tend to dislike that sort of character no matter what they look like. That navel gazing, angst ridden emo crap......I dislike Peter Parker for reasons much like this.

    I also will not support low quality books no matter who is in them. All that does is tell DC I am satisfied with the level of effort they are putting in.

    Supporting varied viewpoints and doing my part for diversity does not mean I waste money on bad comic books. Frankly, I couldn't afford it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Lightning View Post
    The last thing I want to do is read about a black man who doesn't know his value or who can't even figure out if he's human. Not a good look at all.
    Well, black people are allowed to question their own worth too (though anyone on the League needs to step up and represent those ideals regardless of their BS hangups). I don't have an issue with Vic struggling with his self-image, and Cyborg was born from severe trauma (as many good heroes are) and that kind of self-doubt is common with PTSD (as I understand it)......but that crap has long outlived its purpose. It got resolved. Then brought back. Then resolved. Then brought back. The fact that Vic Stone questioned his self worth should be a tidbit of nerd trivia from an older, less evolved version of the character that only the diehards remember, not too dissimilar from the fact that Batman used to use guns or that Superman used to throw common criminals to their deaths all the time.
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  5. #170
    Fantastic Member regg215's Avatar
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    I haven't read the whole thread but I would say that DC's biggest problem with establishing a top level minority character is that they never seem to commit to one and stay the course. They do have some great characters- black lightning, Jon Stewart, cyborg etc.. but they never fully invest in one of them consistently in order to make them a-list. Cyborg has been getting a push for a while but they still haven't found any approach to the character other than the man v machine and it really drags the solo books he has been in lately after an arc or two. I really don't get why they didn't fully push Jon Stewart after the JL cartoon was so successful, he should have been a mainstay in justice league but they never fully took advantage of the momentum that the cartoon built up. I would also say that they are majorly dropping the ball by not having a ongoing Black Lightning or Vixen book right now given the push the tv shows they are on are giving them. Hopefully with Black Lightning seemingly enjoying a lot of success right now DC will give him a book with an A-list writer and and A-list artist.
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  6. #171
    Astonishing Member El_Gato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Of all the racial stereotypes in comics, that's the one I could never understand. Why the need to have Latino heroes speak Spanglish? Do we see Wonder Woman use Greek verbiage in every sentence? Blue Beetle in Injustice 2:

    "I'll teach this mocoso a lesson."

    "You take care of your familia."

    "Jesucristo, Jason, you're gonna nuke us?!"

    lol
    You can blame the likes of Lighter Shade of Brown (rap group), Selena, Jennifer Lopez, Enrique Iglesias or any Latino musical act from the 90's and early 2000's for popularizing Spanglish. It's still very popular today in the entertainment industry, with the likes of Pitbull, Camila Cabello, Becky G and Kap G...etc still mixing the two languages in their music.

    Since Jaime is from Texas, him speaking Spanglish makes a lot of sense. Now if he were from, say Montana or Kentucky, then I'd call bs. The only time I had a problem with Jaime speaking Spanglish was on Young Justice when he'd say "ESE" in every sentence.
    Done with DC. Can't handle the constant whiplash! Time to go on a hiatus!

  7. #172
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    Btw. if you look at the Top 100 for January it doesn't look like the New Age of Heros thing was a success. If you compare it with the sales from last month, they sold somewhere in the 30K range which pretty low for a #1 issue.

  8. #173
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Gato View Post
    You can blame the likes of Lighter Shade of Brown (rap group), Selena, Jennifer Lopez, Enrique Iglesias or any Latino musical act from the 90's and early 2000's for popularizing Spanglish. It's still very popular today in the entertainment industry, with the likes of Pitbull, Camila Cabello, Becky G and Kap G...etc still mixing the two languages in their music.

    Since Jaime is from Texas, him speaking Spanglish makes a lot of sense. Now if he were from, say Montana or Kentucky, then I'd call bs. The only time I had a problem with Jaime speaking Spanglish was on Young Justice when he'd say "ESE" in every sentence.
    Agreed. The Spanglish doesn’t bug me but man did I hate how he spoke in Young Justice. They made him speak like a 90s cholo stereotype.

  9. #174
    The Living Dynamo Black Lightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well, black people are allowed to question their own worth too (though anyone on the League needs to step up and represent those ideals regardless of their BS hangups). I don't have an issue with Vic struggling with his self-image, and Cyborg was born from severe trauma (as many good heroes are) and that kind of self-doubt is common with PTSD (as I understand it)......but that crap has long outlived its purpose. It got resolved. Then brought back. Then resolved. Then brought back. The fact that Vic Stone questioned his self worth should be a tidbit of nerd trivia from an older, less evolved version of the character that only the diehards remember, not too dissimilar from the fact that Batman used to use guns or that Superman used to throw common criminals to their deaths all the time.
    Agreed. No issue with him having felt like that...at the beginning. It's now been way too long in questioning if he's human.

    He's now among this pantheon of the world's greatest and we still have to watch him question this. With him being the only black guy...it starts to send a message. And it isn't a good one.
    Last edited by Black Lightning; 02-12-2018 at 02:55 AM.

  10. #175
    Mighty Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Btw. if you look at the Top 100 for January it doesn't look like the New Age of Heros thing was a success. If you compare it with the sales from last month, they sold somewhere in the 30K range which pretty low for a #1 issue.
    For new heores, it's not so bad, I mean Damage is 44 out 100... and Silencer came out the last day of January, if I remember right, so I expect the issues to rise higher in February. Also, let's remember that new heroes often have difficulties rising high, especially in the current state of the market. I think it'll be the future sustainability of those books which will determine their future, because so far, D.C. seems to be rather happy about them.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    For new heores, it's not so bad, I mean Damage is 44 out 100... and Silencer came out the last day of January, if I remember right, so I expect the issues to rise higher in February.
    These aren't sales to customers it are Orders by shops, so unless they get a second printing, the numbers will not rise.

    For a #1 30K isn't good, usually sales will drop substantially after the first issues, which means these book will end soon in the cancellation range. And they might be new heroes, but with what DC is putting into these heroes, thats probably not what they wanted.

    A good start is something like Batman/Signal that started probably with around twice the number of issues shipped.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    For new heores, it's not so bad, I mean Damage is 44 out 100... and Silencer came out the last day of January, if I remember right, so I expect the issues to rise higher in February. Also, let's remember that new heroes often have difficulties rising high, especially in the current state of the market. I think it'll be the future sustainability of those books which will determine their future, because so far, D.C. seems to be rather happy about them.
    Those numbers are not good. It isn't uncommon for a book to go down fifty percent for its second issue, which puts them on life support immediately. But I think they back loaded the schedule, the big hitters haven't gone yet. The authors of Damage and Silencer don't move the needle whatsoever.

  13. #178
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Lightning View Post
    Nope. I dictate what I support.

    When you have one black character you're pushing among six other premier white heroes, that one black representative need not be the only one who's restricted.

    Restricted in not being stuck in one form not capable of an alter ego.
    Restricted in not being sure of his own humanity.
    Restricted in not being to "physically interact" with a woman.

    As a Teen Titan, it was no issue. He was strictly a team member. Not a premier character. Not a solo star. At the time John Stewart was the premier black hero at DC. He was the wish fulfilment. But now that he's been shuffled off into the shadows, what other black hero could be what he was?

    After what was shown to us from the reboot, more is to be expected of Cyborg. A more idealized version.
    If I had a gif of "People Clapping vigorously" I'd post it for you. This guy really gets it.

    I'd support Firestorm, John Stewart, and Mr. Terrific... I can't stand to look at cyborg, he represents the neutered black male to me.
    He's the character furthest away from being a love interest for anyone, and... its too telling of things that have always been lurking in the U.S. subconscious.
    Sigh... If he was like the Engineer from Wilstorm he's be much more palatable to me, just the ability to internalize his robotic features (sans maybe a light in his chest if it had to be)
    would do millions for him... on a team full of gods.
    Ymmv.

    I'd rather see firestorm on the justice league personally. (edit: Not that firestorm carries a great solo book either if we're being honest)
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  14. #179
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Gato View Post
    You can blame the likes of Lighter Shade of Brown (rap group), Selena, Jennifer Lopez, Enrique Iglesias or any Latino musical act from the 90's and early 2000's for popularizing Spanglish. It's still very popular today in the entertainment industry, with the likes of Pitbull, Camila Cabello, Becky G and Kap G...etc still mixing the two languages in their music.

    Since Jaime is from Texas, him speaking Spanglish makes a lot of sense. Now if he were from, say Montana or Kentucky, then I'd call bs. The only time I had a problem with Jaime speaking Spanglish was on Young Justice when he'd say "ESE" in every sentence.
    Over here we have something called Manglish or Malaysian English. I have a well developed grammar but I still use Manglish from time to time it might not a be stereotype if it exist.
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  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well said man. Great post.

    Someone earlier in this thread (or maybe another one?) said something about Vic, and how's the PoC DC is pushing but he's a character no one wants to be.

    I want to be Cyborg.

    Vic Stone is the only person who doesn't want to be Vic Stone. I would happily take what he's got. Lots of other people would too. Prometheum chassis, genius level intellect, Boom Tube access, friggin MOTHER BOX technology? Written to his potential, Vic is probably the most dangerous person on earth and as capable and powerful as Superman or Wonder Woman or anyone else short of Darkseid. And he's the end game the human race is actually running towards; from household computers to handheld devices to wearable tech and now we're dipping a toe into digital implants....we're spending decades and trillions of dollars trying to be what Cyborg already is. You're damn right I wouldn't argue with being him.

    The only deal breaker for me would be his capability to....um.....satisfy his girl. If you get my meaning. And we know that....those parts.....work fine. So yeah, sign me up for a Mother Box heart and a badass cybernetic eye!

    DC needs to get with the gods damn program and recognize what they've got in Victor Stone. That dude is legit, they just need to f**king write him that way!
    So he still has to do go through stuff like this?


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