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  1. #1
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Default Are Marvel and DC necessary for the future of comic?

    I have been hearing a lot about how the comic book industry has suffered and it's in dire straits And often it's attributed to the general incompetence of Marvel and DC and their mismanagement of their respective brands and characters, rehashed story lines, lack of good talent in it, writers who are basically children in adult bodies, allowing social justice to run wild, certain restrictions you must abide by to write their characters, and constantly employing old guard writers who might have run their course. At this point one must wonder are Marvel and DC necessary for the future of comics? This might be best illustrated by Ring of Gundam a short film created by Gundam creator Yoshiyuki Tomino which illustrated his views on what the anime industry must do to move forward. In Ring of Gundam the hero Eiji seeks the memories of the first Gundam protagonist Amuro Ray on the Ring Colony to find the way to the future for mankind. And during this search a battle erupts, that destroys the Ring Colony and in the end Eiji realises that the memories of Amuro Ray are not necessary for mankind's future. Basically the message is to move forward you have to let go of the past that includes long time franchises. What do you think are the memories of Marvel and DC necessary for the future when there are so many other ways that comics could survive? Is there anything to learn from them other than what not to do at this point? Should the superheroes just fade into the same obscurity the pulp heroes that preceded them fell into? And should new blood just take all their ideas from other archetypes and genres instead of having to use the superheroes?

    PS: I know characters like Superman, Daredevil and Batman took ideas from different genres and archetypes as well but the superhero has evolve into an archetype and genre of it's own and maybe the superhero genre and archetype might not be needed for the future of comics at this point either. Especially when they have been appearing in movies and television shows a lot these past few years which is creating a massive amount of over-saturation.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 02-14-2018 at 11:26 AM.
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  2. #2
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    I don't know about the memories, but the business practices of Marvel and DC are pretty much why the American comic book industry is in relatively poor shape compared to Europe's or Japan's.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  3. #3
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I don't know about the memories, but the business practices of Marvel and DC are pretty much why the American comic book industry is in relatively poor shape compared to Europe's or Japan's.
    I admit it maybe down to mainly Marvel and DC's business practices are why they are an inch away from rock bottom. Memories are simply an allegory for the franchises of Marvel and DC because a lot of what has been seen has technically been seen before. The message of Ring of Gundam is that to move forward you have to let go of the past that includes beloved franchises. I agree with that message actually I have done ideas for comics that does take a few ideas from Marvel and DC but I took more from old detective novels and other media and I find it so fresh and liberating. I know I kind of undermined my question but what if you were to take exclusively from different media and genres would it be for the best? But more importantly do not repeat the same broken business practices Marvel and DC do.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 02-08-2018 at 07:32 AM.
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  4. #4
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    If Marvel and DC collapsed overnight then most of the comic shops would go bust, and the businesses would be in serious trouble.

    A gradual shift away from Marvel and DC though, could be positively good for the industry.

  5. #5
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    A gradual shift away from Marvel and DC though, could be positively good for the industry.
    That would only work if there was adequate competition for the comic industry throne.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  6. #6
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    That would only work if there was adequate competition for the comic industry throne.
    There isn't even supposed to be a throne.
    And there already is massive competition.

    The main issue is that Marvel and DC made comics all about those precious corporate IPs, and the Big Two ending wouldn't be enough to stop that.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  7. #7
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    There isn't even supposed to be a throne.
    And there already is massive competition.

    The main issue is that Marvel and DC made comics all about those precious corporate IPs, and the Big Two ending wouldn't be enough to stop that.
    Right but every time I hear the words Big Two it implies a throne is being occupied in Amercia. Begging your pardon but what do mean by 'all about those precious coporate IPs'?
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 02-08-2018 at 06:01 AM.
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  8. #8
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Right but every time I hear the words Big Two it implies a throne is being occupied in Amercia. Begging your pardon but what do mean by 'all about those precious coporate IPs'?
    Batman, The X-Men, Squirrel Girl... You know, stuff that no longer belongs to creators and will always be pushed hard in favour of stuff that does still belong to creators.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  9. #9
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Batman, The X-Men, Squirrel Girl... You know, stuff that no longer belongs to creators and will always be pushed hard in favour of stuff that does still belong to creators.
    Right but aren't most properties made by Marvel and DC company property except for the characters for the New Age of DC Superheroes imprint they are creator owned which is even getting a push on the telly and movie theaters. And if Marvel and DC go down no one is going to see all those old guys anymore they might end up sold or go down with the ship. So that leaves the throne free for the next guy to take it my bet is Image or even Archie but even those guys don't seem capable enough because I heard they're just as stumped on how to proceed. Someone with a fresh new vision ought to be the one to do it. They just need to not repeat Marvel and DC's mistakes so I kind of vote in favour of them going down like the Ring Colony.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 02-08-2018 at 06:55 AM.
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  10. #10
    Boisterously Confused
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    We may be arguing about which rat deserves to have a grip on the last floating plank of a sinking ship.

    IMO, comics thrive because they are a relatively inexpensive way to deliver entertainment. The number of options undermining comics' market has been growing for decades, and have done a better job at engaging the young.

    So whether Marvel and/or DC are holding comics as an art form back might matter, but they are not the real problem for comics as an industry.

  11. #11
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    We may be arguing about which rat deserves to have a grip on the last floating plank of a sinking ship.

    IMO, comics thrive because they are a relatively inexpensive way to deliver entertainment. The number of options undermining comics' market has been growing for decades, and have done a better job at engaging the young.

    So whether Marvel and/or DC are holding comics as an art form back might matter, but they are not the real problem for comics as an industry.
    I don't get the analogy because if the ship is sunk there's nothing grip on even for the rats. Fact remains fact however that Marvel and DC have priced themselves into oblivion five dollars is not inexpensive if you want to buy a lot of comics. Well people certainly look to Marvel and DC as leaders in the industry so for some if they suffer the industry suffers.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 02-08-2018 at 07:19 AM.
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  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Trey Strain's Avatar
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    I posted once in the Marvel forum that the comics industry looks exactly like a natural monopoly, and that it would make sense for Disney to buy DC Entertainment from Time Warner. The smaller companies would probably survive and do better under those conditions.

    I think DC Entertainment is just one box-office disaster away from that happening.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    I posted once in the Marvel forum that the comics industry looks exactly like a natural monopoly, and that it would make sense for Disney to buy DC Entertainment from Time Warner. The smaller companies would probably survive and do better under those conditions.

    I think DC Entertainment is just one box-office disaster away from that happening.
    If Warner Bros. stopped meddling where they're not needed it won't happen but that depends on have finally learned their lesson after Justice League? And even under Disney Marvel still makes the same stupid mistakes.
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  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member Trey Strain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    If Warner Bros. stopped meddling where they're not needed it won't happen but that depends on have finally learned their lesson after Justice League? And even under Disney Marvel still makes the same stupid mistakes.
    I'm not saying this would make the comics better. It might not. But if an industry is a natural monopoly, then this will tend to happen. It would be like the merger of the American Football League with the National Football League.

  15. #15
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    I'm not saying this would make the comics better. It might not. But if an industry is a natural monopoly, then this will tend to happen. It would be like the merger of the American Football League with the National Football League.
    Well that's not good though DC might go down before that even happens. Along with Marvel anyway.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

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