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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Default As a whole, the Batbooks are in poor shape. Agree? Disagree?

    We can say 80% happy with King’s Batman.
    Tec is alright, treading water to me, needs a shot in the arm.

    Harley, just nothing there. I tried the last 2 issues and nothing really funny or intriguing.
    Both Batgirl and BoP are boring
    Batwoman is just blah
    Nightwing, don’t care. Haven’t read any except the Nightwing must Die story.


    The current minis are pretty good, people are happy with them. I liked the first issue of the Signal and White Knight.

    And to top it off, there is no Robin solo, or Catwoman, or Gotham Central or Cass or Stephh (angry face) or a third Bats book like Dark Knight or Gotham Knights.

    What do you guys think? Would you like to be getting 5 or 6 books? Are you down to just a favorite 2-3?
    Last edited by Nick Miller; 02-08-2018 at 08:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Disagree. 'Tec and Batwoman are great, Nightwing and RHaTO are enjoyable, and BBoP is fine. Signal's so short that I'm waiting for all the issues to release before saying for sure, but the first issue was okay. I don't really like Batman, but that's primarily for King's writing.

    So I'm mostly satisfied. That said, I would like some extra stuff for the Knight "kids", and a new Gotham Central would be welcome.
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  3. #3
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    Default

    Not enough Dick. The books just feel called in.

  4. #4
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    Totally disagree. King is doing my favorite Batman stuff since... Loeb and Sale? Azzarello? Hard to say, but I love the main Batman regardless.

    Metal is a smash success, sales wise and critically. I'm really digging it.

    I love Tec too. I like that it has a clear reason for being and features so many characters. Big fan of Tynion in general.

    All Star is super enjoyable to me. The artistic talent is out of this world and I like Snyder getting a chance to do stories outside of the pressure of being the main book.

    White Knight is my favorite AU take on Batman in a long time too. Really loving it.

    Batwoman is pretty good. I like it fine, it's a solid book. Same thing for Nightwing, I'm behind a bit and looking forward to seeing what Humphries does with it. I like his Green Lanterns.

    Batgirl, I didn't like the first arc at all and liked the second better. I like BOP kind of, but would not mind another author taking over at all.

    RHAO is what it has been for, what, seven years now? Kind of crazy to think Lobdell has been writing a book that long. It's fun but I wouldn't miss it.

    Batman vs TMNT have both been way better than they have any right to be. Pure candy coated nostalgia fun.

    I don't really care for Harley Quinn under Palmiotti and Conner. I'd like someone else to get a shot.

    So I have five books I love and can't wait for each issue, three books I like but don't love, two I'm undecided about and one I don't really care for. I'm beyond happy with the bat books right now.
    "
    Last edited by Daniel22; 02-08-2018 at 09:06 PM.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member NightwingIvI's Avatar
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    Yup.

    I read in trades now, so I'm a bit behind but here are my thoughts.

    I am unabashedly a King fanboy, so I read and for the most part enjoy his run on Batman. I was however bitterly disappointed by The War of Jokes and Riddles.

    I picked up the first issue of Humpries Nightwing run and it was alright with amazing art. I'll check out the trade, but wouldn't be gutted by a new writer.

    Red Hood seems to have found a small audience that really enjoys it, but I tried it and think it still feels like "fake edgy Nightwing" but now with a different cast.

    Batgirl clearly isn't for me, but judging by sales, it really isn't for anyone.

    Birds of Prey is a mediocre attempt to cash in on the nostalgia of better runs while not capturing the same dynamic due to ths characters being in such different states.

    Tynion has the incredible ability to make me actively dislike the characters that he tries to make popular with Detective Comics, including the ones that I picked up the book for.

    And Scott Snyder hangs around like a buzzard with All-Star Batman, Metal, and Last Knight even though he has already run the mythos into the ground and has completely forgotten how to tell the kinds of stories that got him his fame in the first place, instead wikipedia vomiting and writing contrived retcons all over the place.


    Only Batman and Detective Comics seem to be telling important stories (or trying to) while the rest seem to grind their wheels in the mid or drive in circles.

    And in terms of general continuity:

    Robin, the second half of the DYNAMIC DUO, is completely ignored and underused. It shouldn't be like that.

    We seemed to have reached a point at which we are at the worst of both worlds regarding the New 52 and Post-Crisis continuity. We lack solid established history (UTRH has been comepletely changed but only mentioned off panel) and many of Batman's best stories (Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Batgirl/Robin Year One) that flesh out his background are no longer canon instead replaced by Snyder's shitty Zero Year (except when it is not?). BUT we still have all of the bloated cast of characters. The redundencies in roles, mantles, ages etc dilutes each character. We don't need 5 former Robins and 3 former Batgirls. This is only made worse by the addition of the even worse Duke Thomas and Harper Rowe.

    If there isn't room or roles for all of the teenagers still sucking off of Batman's teat (and there isn't) then we need a new New 52-like culling, but one that isn't afraid to axe some Robins. I grant one active former Robin, an active Robin and likewise for Batgirl. Jason can be dead without counting. Axe the rest and don't bring them back. Batman isn't popular because he runs a daycare of kids.

    Dick's alien New 52 Robin suit is cannon and taints any flashback it is in.

    Batwoman should not be Batman's cousin. Neither should Bette Kane. It takes away from every character involved.

    It is sad and telling that some of Batman's best showings since Rebirth have been outside of the main Bat Office or out of continuity like White Knight, Deathstroke, and Superman.
    Last edited by NightwingIvI; 02-08-2018 at 09:12 PM.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  6. #6
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Miller View Post
    We can say 80% happy with King’s Batman.
    Tec is alright, treading water to me, needs a shot in the arm.

    Harley, just nothing there. I tried the last 2 issues and nothing really funny or intriguing.
    Both Batgirl and BoP are boring
    Batwoman is just blah
    Nightwing, don’t care. Haven’t read any except the Nightwing must Die story.


    The current minis are pretty good, people are happy with them. I liked the first issue of the Signal and White Knight.

    And to top it off, there is no Robin solo, or Catwoman, or Gotham Central or Cass or Stephh (angry face) or a third Bats book like Dark Knight or Gotham Knights.

    What do you guys think? Would you like to be getting 5 or 6 books? Are you down to just a favorite 2-3?
    I'm totally with you on wanting solos for Robin/Red Robin (or both!) and Cass and Steph. I dunno if we need a third Batbook since we have White Knight and Metal.

    Honestly, I think Metal is sucking a lot of the water out of the glass, which is warping the whole Batfamily right now. But that's mostly because I really dislike Metal.

    However, I'm a weird case - Rebirth is the first time in my life I've ever actually had a pull list, and I'm still pulling all the Bat-books I started with (which is just Tec and Birds of Prey. I also started with Wondygal, but dropped it after Rucka left). I've added Bane and Deathstroke (which is about to become a Batbook ). So no, I wouldn't be pulling more.

    I think the lack of an actual Bat-editor, the weight of Metal, and the fact that no one is willing to push BatCat linewide means that all the books are kind of at cross purposes.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Reviews

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightwingIvI View Post
    Batwoman should not be Batman's cousin. Neither should Bette Kane. It takes away from every character involved.
    You keep saying this, and you keep being wrong.
    Mega fan of: Helena Bertinelli (pre-52), Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Guardians of the Galaxy, Secret Six
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  8. #8
    THE RED HOOD JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    I've been very happy with both RHATO and King's Batman but those are the only two mainline Bat books I'm reading at the moment. The rest main Bat line is full of books that I either dropped because they disappointed me or that I had absolutely no interest in reading to begin with. So far as the minis go I really enjoyed Nightwing: The New Order and the first issue of Batman and the Signal, which I felt showed a lot of promise. I've also been enjoying the crossover between the Shadow and Batman Dynamite has been doing.

    All in all though the majority of the Bat line just falls completely flat to me.

    (I also really like Super Sons but that's not just a Bat book so I'm not sure it counts.)

    Current Top 25 Titles:Accell/Super Sons/Red Hood and the Outlaws/Incidentals/New Super-Man/Superb/Green Lanterns/Maxwell's Demons/Batman and the Signal/Noble/Black Lightning/My Hero Academia/Ninja-K/Monstress/Gotham City Garage/Alters/Batman/Kino/ASM: Renew Your Vows/Summit/Bloodshot: Salvation/Moon Knight/Astonisher/Falcon/Tales of Suspense


    Oh my goodness gracious! I've been bamboozled!

  9. #9

    Default

    I haven't read a lot of the main Batman series, just the Brave and the Mold issue, which I thought was pretty cool. I've been loving Metal, and I think that White Knight is one of the best series available right now. Other than that a lot of the other bat books just haven't caught my eye. I've picked up one issue of Suicide Squad in the past year and it was ok, but not enough to make me go back.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightwingIvI View Post
    Yup.

    I read in trades now, so I'm a bit behind but here are my thoughts.

    I am unabashedly a King fanboy, so I read and for the most part enjoy his run on Batman. I was however bitterly disappointed by The War of Jokes and Riddles.

    I picked up the first issue of Humpries Nightwing run and it was alright with amazing art. I'll check out the trade, but wouldn't be gutted by a new writer.

    Red Hood seems to have found a small audience that really enjoys it, but I tried it and think it still feels like "fake edgy Nightwing" but now with a different cast.

    Batgirl clearly isn't for me, but judging by sales, it really isn't for anyone.

    Birds of Prey is a mediocre attempt to cash in on the nostalgia of better runs while not capturing the same dynamic due to ths characters being in such different states.

    Tynion has the incredible ability to make me actively dislike the characters that he tries to make popular with Detective Comics, including the ones that I picked up the book for.

    And Scott Snyder hangs around like a buzzard with All-Star Batman, Metal, and Last Knight even though he has already run the mythos into the ground and has completely forgotten how to tell the kinds of stories that got him his fame in the first place, instead wikipedia vomiting and writing contrived retcons all over the place.


    Only Batman and Detective Comics seem to be telling important stories (or trying to) while the rest seem to grind their wheels in the mid or drive in circles.

    And in terms of general continuity:

    Robin, the second half of the DYNAMIC DUO, is completely ignored and underused. It shouldn't be like that.

    We seemed to have reached a point at which we are at the worst of both worlds regarding the New 52 and Post-Crisis continuity. We lack solid established history (UTRH has been comepletely changed but only mentioned off panel) and many of Batman's best stories (Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Batgirl/Robin Year One) that flesh out his background are no longer canon instead replaced by Snyder's shitty Zero Year (except when it is not?). BUT we still have all of the bloated cast of characters. The redundencies in roles, mantles, ages etc dilutes each character. We don't need 5 former Robins and 3 former Batgirls. This is only made worse by the addition of the even worse Duke Thomas and Harper Rowe.

    If there isn't room or roles for all of the teenagers still sucking off of Batman's teat (and there isn't) then we need a new New 52-like culling, but one that isn't afraid to axe some Robins. I grant one active former Robin, an active Robin and likewise for Batgirl. Jason can be dead without counting. Axe the rest and don't bring them back. Batman isn't popular because he runs a daycare of kids.

    Dick's alien New 52 Robin suit is cannon and taints any flashback it is in.

    Batwoman should not be Batman's cousin. Neither should Bette Kane. It takes away from every character involved.

    It is sad and telling that some of Batman's best showings since Rebirth have been outside of the main Bat Office or out of continuity like White Knight, Deathstroke, and Superman.
    I dont neccesarily agree with everything you wrote but the part about Rebirth Batline signifying the worst of both New 52 and Pre Flashpoint really, really holds true to me.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightwingIvI View Post
    Batwoman should not be Batman's cousin. Neither should Bette Kane. It takes away from every character involved.
    Caivu says you're wrong.

    I volunteer to be wrong along with you.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  12. #12
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I'm totally with you on wanting solos for Robin/Red Robin (or both!) and Cass and Steph. I dunno if we need a third Batbook since we have White Knight and Metal.
    To hell with Robin. And Batgirl and Harley Quinn too. Catwoman needs her own solo series.

  13. #13
    Fantastic Member CryNotWolf's Avatar
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    I disagree.

    Busiek's Batman: Creature of the Night is incredible. It's so far been a very soulful and heartfelt experience and I'm very much looking forward to the rest of the story. King's Batman is an ambitious step in the right direction for the mythos, and I while I am very critical of it I still quite often enjoy the things King tries to do with the character, not the mention that aside from Finch and Janin it's had an absolutely stellar cast of artists on the book that knock it out of the park every issue. The Dark Prince Charming was a great traditional Batman comic with BEAUTIFUL art, and I'm certainly excited for the next installment. RHATO is alright, it's not my favorite but I don't regret keeping it on my pull list. White Knight is a comic that I'm mainly reading for the art and BTAS nostalgia, I really like it but it's no revelation.

    Is Mother Panic considered a Bat-book tangentially, considering it's set in Gotham? Because I like Mother Panc too. It's not great, but it's decent.

    The rest, however? 'Tec, Batwoman, Batgirl/BoP, Nightwing... I'm not going to say that they're objectively bad in every single way, but I find it very difficult to enjoy these books in any context.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member failo.legendkiller's Avatar
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    Agree and disagree.

    King's Batman is pure quality. Something new we didn't have from long time.
    Detective is not the best but it's ok. Team book with highs and low as always happen with Tynion.
    RATHO is a great book, finally Lobdell found his way! His dark trinity is intriguing.
    Nightwing could be better, anyway a Dick solo book is always worthy to be read.
    I've totally skipped Metal, Multiverse and Batgod are not my cup of tea.
    I never cared about Harley. Babs, Helena, Steph, Cass are not at their best but at last they exist now.

    I miss a Tim Drake book, someone who could write him and fix him. What Tynion did in Detective is far away from what i desired.
    My great hope is having Dixon deal with him having Stephanie as supporter character.

    Another thing i'm missing is the Batman/Robin relationship. Damian is a great character but his dynamic with Bruce is lacking.
    Dick & Damian, Bruce & Tim should be the two couple I'd like to see work together more often.

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    Caivu says you're wrong.

    I volunteer to be wrong along with you.
    Everyone needs a friend. Even wrong folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by CryNotWolf View Post
    Is Mother Panic considered a Bat-book tangentially, considering it's set in Gotham? Because I like Mother Panc too. It's not great, but it's decent.
    I initially left that off since it's on hiatus, but it's been excellent the whole way.
    Last edited by Caivu; 02-09-2018 at 02:47 AM.
    Mega fan of: Helena Bertinelli (pre-52), Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Guardians of the Galaxy, Secret Six
    Fan of: Batman, Cassandra Cain, Wonder Woman, Silk, Stephanie Brown, Captain America, Hellcat, Renee Montoya, Gotham Central, King Shark
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