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  1. #1
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    Default Anakin's Redemption Arc

    This is an argument I see pop up frequently in discussing the prequels - that Anakin killing children in Revenge of the Sith makes it impossible to believe that he can be redeemed in Return of the Jedi. Thing is we've seen Anakin as Vader commit several deplorable acts during the original movies so why does seeing him kill kids in the prequels seem too far?

  2. #2
    Incredible Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
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    For the same reason people feel Identity Crisis went too far with the rape of Sue Dibny. We're desensitized to adult dudes being killed so when a woman is raped or a kid is killed in a movie or comic it makes people feel weird.

  3. #3
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    A thing to make note of is that he isn't redeemed by law in ROTJ, he's only redeemed in the eyes of the force for saving Luke and killing Palpatine. Luke is the only one at Vader's funeral BTW. He may have died on the lightside of the force but he's still committed awful acts throughout the films and nobody but Luke cares about what alignment he had.
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  4. #4
    Mighty Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Yeah, and Leia gets largely booted from the Republic senate and starts forming the resistance after that fact goes public in the "Bloodlines" novel. Although not really stated that much in the films, it's stated in Bloodlines that she never told Ben either until things went public; it's possible this helped lead to at least part of his dark path.

    The post-ROTJ EU Republic seemed to be more forgiving, although some still had reservations which caused Luke and Leia some trouble. The revelation of Leia's parentage to the Noghri helped take down Thrawn though, so that was a big plus.


    There's also the weird alternate timeline "Infinities" which has the redeemed Vader surviving ROTJ and getting his armor painted white. Weird stuff.


    I recall seeing there was kind of a backlash to Anakin killing the Tuskens too. I think that might've worked better if Anakin had perhaps kept it a secret and not told Padme at all. She seems pretty horrified by the events in ROTS, but in AOTC she just gives him a shoulder to cry on pretty much.
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  5. #5

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    I agree with what's been said. Even though he was redeemed in the eyes of the Force, Vader will always be viewed as a villain across the galaxy. He just did too much evil to come back from in the eyes of the people.

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    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Killing kids is considered a most vicious act. More then even adults. People are kind of wired like that. Kids signify innocence. And they require protection. So, killing children feels more cruel then adults to most people at any rate.

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    Non-fanboy Member Cel's Avatar
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    There was always the old argument that Anakin Skywalker ceased to exist the moment he became Darth Vader, and that there was no actual redemption for the things Vader did. If you go with that idea, then it was Luke that brought Anakin Skywalker back at the critical moment to destroy the Sith.

    I guess it depends on a certain point of view...
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    Spam Hunter Conn Seanery's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think it all boils down to whether you think Anakin's turn to the dark side was more of a conscious choice than the result of Palpatine's manipulations. I'm not saying the latter forgives the murdering of children and the countless other horrible things Vader did, a last minute turn back to light doesn't mean he should get away with it. But seeing as he in some way paid the ultimate price (dying), I think rather than joining the good side Force ghost party he should have ended up in some kind of Force limbo where he has to atone for what he did as Vader.
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  9. #9
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    That could make for some pretty interesting, deadman like stories Conn, I'd be down for that.

  10. #10
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conn Seanery View Post
    Yeah, I think it all boils down to whether you think Anakin's turn to the dark side was more of a conscious choice than the result of Palpatine's manipulations. I'm not saying the latter forgives the murdering of children and the countless other horrible things Vader did, a last minute turn back to light doesn't mean he should get away with it. But seeing as he in some way paid the ultimate price (dying), I think rather than joining the good side Force ghost party he should have ended up in some kind of Force limbo where he has to atone for what he did as Vader.
    I would be more willing to accept his redemption if those younglings were the first bunch of kids he butchered.
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  11. #11
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    In Anakin's defense, Tusken raiders are pretty much dickwads.

    The younglings ... well he gave in to his anger. Think about where he was emotionally - after idolizing Jedi for all his young years he ends up getting completely jaded by them and becoming Darth Sidious' apprentice. And he loves Padme and wants her to live. He was a mess at that point, and just let his emotions get the best of him.

    Most of the other heinous things Anakin did could be considered to be more wartime acts, which are under a different category I think.

    When he turned against Sidious, it was redemptive for him because he did it out of love for his son. First time in years he had done something out of love rather than hate.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 02-12-2018 at 03:20 PM.
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  12. #12
    Rebel that Rebels BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Well, Vader did die afterwards. It's not like he was rewarded ... oh wait, he got a Force Ghost.

    That's my main problem with it, children or not, is he got a Force Ghost in the end. That's a reward. Not burning in Force Hell is all he deserved. Not a shot at immorality.
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    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Well, Vader did die afterwards. It's not like he was rewarded ... oh wait, he got a Force Ghost.
    Which is really odd, because Force-ghostiness isn't just a reward for being a good Jedi, but Lucas retconned it into a Light Side special technique you need to learn some time before you die.
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  14. #14
    Rebel that Rebels BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Which is really odd, because Force-ghostiness isn't just a reward for being a good Jedi, but Lucas retconned it into a Light Side special technique you need to learn some time before you die.
    So what was it before the PT? My canon memory is rusty.
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  15. #15
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    So what was it before the PT? My canon memory is rusty.
    It was never officially stated but every jedi we saw could do it so it seemed like something that was just a given not some secret skill that had to be learned.

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