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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    Maybe.. I'm not sure he had that many fans to begin with. I'm not sure there was any way they could have brought him back that would have led to him selling over 20,000 comics a month for long. So many much more established and popular characters can't pull that off currently, so I'm doubtful he could under any circumstance...
    Perhaps, but alienating a percentage (likely a large one) of the finite number of preexisting fans he did have in no way helped matters. For example, I was very excited when I learned through the rumor mill Ben would return but when I saw how he returned basically becoming a messed up villainous psychopath, it killed my interest in the character's future adventures.
    "You'll never learn to fly now 'til you're standing at the cliff."

  2. #17
    Moderator oldschool's Avatar
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    It is insane that PP:SSM is not selling better; it is arguably better than ASM right now and, while it is unrealistic to expect it to sell more than the flagship title, it should be doing a hell of a lot better than 28,000 copies sold.
    I miss Kevin Nichols. Not as much as bacon, but still...

  3. #18
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    It is insane that PP:SSM is not selling better; it is arguably better than ASM right now and, while it is unrealistic to expect it to sell more than the flagship title, it should be doing a hell of a lot better than 28,000 copies sold.
    You'd think there wouldn't be such a disparity between two books led by the same lead, even one that's still just a satellite to the other's flagship book.

  4. #19
    Moderator oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    You'd think there wouldn't be such a disparity between two books led by the same lead, even one that's still just a satellite to the other's flagship book.
    Right? I mean, part of it could be it's still a relatively young title; I do expect #300 to do well this month but I still thought/expected it to be selling in the 35k or better range.
    I miss Kevin Nichols. Not as much as bacon, but still...

  5. #20
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    It is insane that PP:SSM is not selling better; it is arguably better than ASM right now and, while it is unrealistic to expect it to sell more than the flagship title, it should be doing a hell of a lot better than 28,000 copies sold.
    Well, it's the first satellite title in years, those first four issues probably turned off a lot of people too, and perhaps something like Teresa's presence pushes away people? I'll be honest and say that when I saw her in Spectacular#1 I considered dropping it just because of how much shit fanfiction she sounds like lol.

    At the very least it's the second most sold Spidey title, safe enough that it doesn't look like it can be cancelled every other month like RYV, hopefuly more people realize that the writing improved.

  6. #21
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Poor Ben indeed, although the way they chose to bring the character back left a bad taste in a lot of fan's mouths. Most have never gotten over it apparently.
    Conjecture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    Maybe.. I'm not sure he had that many fans to begin with. I'm not sure there was any way they could have brought him back that would have led to him selling over 20,000 comics a month for long. So many much more established and popular characters can't pull that off currently, so I'm doubtful he could under any circumstance...
    Reasonable take.

    -Pav, who assumed a short lifespan from the get-go...
    2018 Marvel Monthly Buys: Ben Reilly: the Scarlet Spider Dr. Strange Iron Fist Runaways Spider-Gwen

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  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Conjecture...
    What isn't conjecture is the chronically low sales totals for the series. For whatever reason, the series has not resonated with the fanbase enough to secure an audience of significant number.
    Last edited by Celgress; 02-12-2018 at 03:26 PM.
    "You'll never learn to fly now 'til you're standing at the cliff."

  8. #23
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    What isn't conjecture is the chronically low sales totals for the series. For whatever reason, the series has not resonated with the fanbase enough to secure an audience of significant number.
    Sounds like a combination of: He's a controvertial character, so many avoid him + What Slott did to him in Clone Conspiracy + There are too many Spider-People around, and he's one of Peter's literal clones, so he has even less appeal.

    Just the first reason alone is more than enough for him to not be that popular, hell, Kaine became a likeable character after Spider-Island, and even after that his comic didn't have more than 30 issues, and it was an actual good comic, so it's not surprising that history is repeating itself with his "brother".

  9. #24
    Fantastic Member Spidey5640's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    Right? I mean, part of it could be it's still a relatively young title; I do expect #300 to do well this month but I still thought/expected it to be selling in the 35k or better range.
    One thing that is missing that MIGHT help sales is a reference to events in PPSM in the pages of ASM. Right now, I don't remember anything being mentioned or referred to in ASM. That was always a cool part when the original PPSM came out, they would reference an event or storyline from it in ASM and make you want to go pick up.

  10. #25
    Spectacular Member Imago's Avatar
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    Sad about Scarlet Spider, i don't see it lasting much longer


    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    That seems to be due to the crossover with Amazing Spider-Man.
    Worth noting about the Venom.inc crossover is that while both Amazing Spider-Man and the Alpha/Omega issues numbers decreased from december to January, Venom numbers increased, not much but it's something.

    Amazing Spider-Man Venom Inc Alpha: 69,600
    Amazing Spider-Man Venom Inc Omega: 63322

    Amazing Spider-Man #792: 61994
    Amazing Spider-Man #793: 53260
    Amazing Spider-Man #794: 51412

    Venom #159: 36203
    Venom #160: 37487

  11. #26
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey5640 View Post
    One thing that is missing that MIGHT help sales is a reference to events in PPSM in the pages of ASM. Right now, I don't remember anything being mentioned or referred to in ASM. That was always a cool part when the original PPSM came out, they would reference an event or storyline from it in ASM and make you want to go pick up.
    Not to mention that it was in Spectacular where DeWolff was killed, which started a darker era of Spidey comics, so back then Spectacular was as much as a big deal as ASM (At least during that era).

  12. #27
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    What isn't conjecture is the chronically low sales totals for the series. For whatever reason, the series has not resonated with the fanbase enough to secure an audience of significant number.
    I mean, did you expect it would? Ben is my #1 guy, but I went into this just happy for whatever we got. The title could've ended at issue six and I wouldn't have been shocked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Sounds like a combination of: He's a controvertial character, so many avoid him + What Slott did to him in Clone Conspiracy + There are too many Spider-People around, and he's one of Peter's literal clones, so he has even less appeal.

    Just the first reason alone is more than enough for him to not be that popular, hell, Kaine became a likeable character after Spider-Island, and even after that his comic didn't have more than 30 issues, and it was an actual good comic, so it's not surprising that history is repeating itself with his "brother".
    I mean, he's brought back after twenty years of basically nothing, and yeah, I have no problem acknowledging that Clone Conspiracy didn't do Ben any favors. But I don't think it really changed a whole lot. Were some fans turned off by his portrayal enough to not buy his solo? Obviously. But how many of these specific fans actually exist? I don't think there are five thousand disgruntled fans demanding a better Ben book. Most just don't care.

    At this point, a Bucky-level return would've been the only thing that vaulted Ben back into the spotlight, and those kinds of stories don't happen every day.

    Personally - and this is just conjecture - I think the book has lasted as long as it has simply because PAD was promised a certain number of issues of work.

    Regardless, I'll be buying the title as long as it exists. It may be nothing special to most, but as a fan of Ben, Kaine, and the Slingers, it's literally a dream come true for me.

    -Pav, who is also aware that Ben was supposed to be brought back in Spider-Island instead of Kaine...
    Last edited by Pav; 02-12-2018 at 04:11 PM.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Perhaps, but alienating a percentage (likely a large one) of the finite number of preexisting fans he did have in no way helped matters. For example, I was very excited when I learned through the rumor mill Ben would return but when I saw how he returned basically becoming a messed up villainous psychopath, it killed my interest in the character's future adventures.
    That could be true, there's no way to know for sure but that is a reasonable question to ask. Maybe the villainous/grey side appealed to other readers who didn't like him as a hero? Also impossible to say, although it definitely doesn't seem to be the case. It's just so hard for any non A-list character to have a sustained run... Makes it hard to get excited when a new book starring someone I love gets announced. I just try to enjoy what I get, sometimes it ends up being perfect even if it is short.

  14. #29
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    I mean, he's brought back after twenty years of basically nothing, and yeah, I have no problem acknowledging that Clone Conspiracy didn't do Ben any favors. But I don't think it really changed a whole lot. Were some fans turned off by his portrayal enough to not buy his solo? Obviously. But how many of these specific fans actually exist? I don't think there are five thousand disgruntled fans demanding a better Ben book. Most just don't care.
    Well, definitely at first fans were turned off enough by him, Ben was being basicaly a mentaly unstable douche until issue 7, only after that he was trying harder to be a better person, and that meh costume probably got in the way a bit too (though that only lasted for 3 issues), and since first impressions tend to last, there's probably a significant ammount of fans avoiding his comics because of the first issues, though I doubt there's a significant number of people many doing that.

    Personally - and this is just conjecture - I think the book has lasted as long as it has simply because PAD was promised a certain number of issues of work.
    I think Marvel follows a "Season" type of writing with comics, like tv shows, they publish X ammount of issues, if it's popular, make another "season", if not, then just end the comic.

    Regardless, I'll be buying the title as long as it exists. It may be nothing special to most, but as a fan of Ben, Kaine, and the Slingers, it's literally a dream come true.
    Well, I don't really care about any of those characters, and even so I find this comic to be a good read, think more people should give it a chance.

    -Pav, who is also aware that Ben was supposed to be brought back in Spider-Island instead of Kaine...
    Really? Wonder why they chose Kaine, was Ben going to have Kaine's role or would both be there?

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey5640 View Post
    One thing that is missing that MIGHT help sales is a reference to events in PPSM in the pages of ASM. Right now, I don't remember anything being mentioned or referred to in ASM. That was always a cool part when the original PPSM came out, they would reference an event or storyline from it in ASM and make you want to go pick up.
    That might work in the long term, but you wouldn't see immediate gains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Well, it's the first satellite title in years, those first four issues probably turned off a lot of people too, and perhaps something like Teresa's presence pushes away people? I'll be honest and say that when I saw her in Spectacular#1 I considered dropping it just because of how much shit fanfiction she sounds like lol.

    At the very least it's the second most sold Spidey title, safe enough that it doesn't look like it can be cancelled every other month like RYV, hopefuly more people realize that the writing improved.
    Unless they decide to make ASM come out more often.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

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