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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Real Hawkeye Kate Bishop View Post
    The thing people fail to realize is that in regards to Marvel Two In One is that it is a relic of a bygone era. The comic market has changed people no longer want to read about a group of white people going on science adventures. We want diversity in our comics we want our comics to tackle real social issues that matter not made up science stuff that we can't relate to. Now maybe if they remade the fantastic four as a more diverse team that explored gender and social issues than yes it would be more well received. But as it stands now we have decades of fantastic four stories why do we need more?
    Marvel also drove off a lot of the old guard comic fans I noticed that my local comic shop has become more diverse as a result I am seeing a lot more people than the usual crowd of 30+ year old white men who used to frequent the shop.
    Times change the fantastic four haven't they are still the same four people they were back in the 60s. If marvel wants the fantastic four to succeed they need to change the team to represent the kind of people who are buying comics now namely younger and more diverse.
    The Fantastic Four HAS a place.

    NO matter how diverse the fandom gets-they will always have a place. Just like every single white hero and even those of all races.

    The issue we have is when one group (either side) thinks comics should ONLY belong to THEM.

    It belongs to NEITHER because like it or not Marvel is not going to stop with diverse books nor white male lead books.

    All we can do is offer feedback in a HOPE we see improved quality.

    So if a book FAILS it fails for factors outside of SJW Marvel, Entitlement fan hate or low sales-let quality NOT be one of the issues.

    60 years of FF gave you that guy in the catsuit with the movie. Along with Inhumans & Silver Surfer.

    MAYBE another 60 years can give you that Moon Girl movie. Or that diverse family that goes exploring like the family in Netflix's The Deep.

    Maybe we could see a FF foundation Academy that have a diverse cast and rival the X-Men.

    Look at history-who would have thought Peter Parker would spawn one of them most success villain titles with Venom? Or Spider- Woman (pick one) or Spider-Gwen or Miles. Or look at Batman-whose family OWNS DC.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Real Hawkeye Kate Bishop View Post
    The thing people fail to realize is that in regards to Marvel Two In One is that it is a relic of a bygone era. The comic market has changed people no longer want to read about a group of white people going on science adventures. We want diversity in our comics we want our comics to tackle real social issues that matter not made up science stuff that we can't relate to. Now maybe if they remade the fantastic four as a more diverse team that explored gender and social issues than yes it would be more well received. But as it stands now we have decades of fantastic four stories why do we need more?
    Marvel also drove off a lot of the old guard comic fans I noticed that my local comic shop has become more diverse as a result I am seeing a lot more people than the usual crowd of 30+ year old white men who used to frequent the shop.
    Times change the fantastic four haven't they are still the same four people they were back in the 60s. If marvel wants the fantastic four to succeed they need to change the team to represent the kind of people who are buying comics now namely younger and more diverse.
    Are You really sure that all books should be the same?
    maybe it would be the best if marvel would have only one book. why more?/s
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  3. #63
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Reed Richards is the only member of the FF that the MU has required in the last decade or so. The rest have no place other then support characters. Scrap the FF and call it Mr Fantastic Mad science

  4. #64
    Mighty Member Valamist's Avatar
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    It is a shame to see Marvel 2-in-One not doing as well. I'm not much of a F4 fan but its been a great book so far, and I do hope that a proper F4 book rises form it soon (The Fox/Disney deal gives me even more hope) though even if that happens, I do fear it wont be the big hit many fans are expecting. I think it will need to have a strong creative team behind it, otherwise it may fall again, and this time not due to Marvel bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Fans obsess way too much over numbers that they don't even have the full info on. These are estimates, at best, and don't represent the full picture.

    If you showed someone from twenty years ago today's TV ratings for the top networks, they'd think that the industry had gone in the toilet. A show can be considered a hit now with overnight numbers that would've gotten them cancelled years ago. TV measures success differently now, as viewers consume media from a variety of formats. So too with comics, it's not all about the month to month issues anymore in the way it used to be.
    Thats something I have been wondering about for a while now. For context, I have been following the TV ratings of Doctor Who for years now, and its fascinating to see how that, and the TV landscape has changed over the years. I find it very hard to believe that the comics industry as a whole has not been effected in a similar way. Its why I think its very unfair when Marvel are blamed for industry slumps in sales etc. No matter what changes Marvel do, I don't think they or any comic company will reach the highlights of yesteryear in these types of charts.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Real Hawkeye Kate Bishop View Post
    The thing people fail to realize is that in regards to Marvel Two In One is that it is a relic of a bygone era. The comic market has changed people no longer want to read about a group of white people going on science adventures. We want diversity in our comics we want our comics to tackle real social issues that matter not made up science stuff that we can't relate to. Now maybe if they remade the fantastic four as a more diverse team that explored gender and social issues than yes it would be more well received. But as it stands now we have decades of fantastic four stories why do we need more?
    Marvel also drove off a lot of the old guard comic fans I noticed that my local comic shop has become more diverse as a result I am seeing a lot more people than the usual crowd of 30+ year old white men who used to frequent the shop.
    Times change the fantastic four haven't they are still the same four people they were back in the 60s. If marvel wants the fantastic four to succeed they need to change the team to represent the kind of people who are buying comics now namely younger and more diverse.
    I cant agree sorry. Whilst I agree that the readers of comics are a more broad group than ever - which is a good thing, and that that must also be reflected in the interests they have and want to see in their books, it simple does not follow that there is no interest for ff because of those things

    Sure it's a very specific group of characters in its classic line, but there's still plenty of interest and room for such a book, they were not cancelled due to low sales, that is simply not true and we know it

    In fact they sold around 35000, perfectly respectable

    sure there not for everyone, but nothing is

    I am desperate to read a proper, science fiction adventure ff book again, the ultimates2 tried to do that with a broad range of characters, it didn't last and I liked that book a lot

    The ff got stopped Coz of movie politics nothing else

    The fact that a book with only half their membership sells around 30000 is a sign of good interest not the opposite I feel

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Reed Richards is the only member of the FF that the MU has required in the last decade or so. The rest have no place other then support characters. Scrap the FF and call it Mr Fantastic Mad science
    That sounds mind-numbingly boring.

    Try Marvel 2-in-One! OUT NOW!


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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Real Hawkeye Kate Bishop View Post
    The thing people fail to realize is that in regards to Marvel Two In One is that it is a relic of a bygone era. The comic market has changed people no longer want to read about a group of white people going on science adventures. We want diversity in our comics we want our comics to tackle real social issues that matter not made up science stuff that we can't relate to. Now maybe if they remade the fantastic four as a more diverse team that explored gender and social issues than yes it would be more well received. But as it stands now we have decades of fantastic four stories why do we need more?
    Marvel also drove off a lot of the old guard comic fans I noticed that my local comic shop has become more diverse as a result I am seeing a lot more people than the usual crowd of 30+ year old white men who used to frequent the shop.
    Times change the fantastic four haven't they are still the same four people they were back in the 60s. If marvel wants the fantastic four to succeed they need to change the team to represent the kind of people who are buying comics now namely younger and more diverse.
    I'm all for diversity but I'm pretty contident this person is a troll.

  8. #68
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    Most likely since they've not bothered to respond to the counterpoints and no further posts have been made.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Most likely since they've not bothered to respond to the counterpoints and no further posts have been made.
    I don't agree with their post. I also don't think that because they haven't posted further they are a troll. People have other things to do, not everyone is going to rack up thousands of posts. I could post 1000 times in a thread and it doesn't make me any more or less right. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your meaning, if so I apologize.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    I don't agree with their post. I also don't think that because they haven't posted further they are a troll. People have other things to do, not everyone is going to rack up thousands of posts. I could post 1000 times in a thread and it doesn't make me any more or less right. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your meaning, if so I apologize.
    As I said, it's most likely. It's a pattern that I've seen and I wouldn't be surprised if they never follow up. Maybe they just like to lurk. But IMO if you're going to disparage a fan group as this person has done and don't have a reply to those who dispute their opinion you're just trolling.
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  11. #71
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    These are pretty distressing numbers for the overall industry, but the industry has navigated rough spots before.
    Keep in mind, these numbers are within the industry. In other words, they are bad in and of themselves.


    Phoenix Resurrection is not selling well for an event, failing to beat regular issues of Batman.
    The problem is the type of event that "Phoenix Resurrection" is. The most important thing is the dispostion of certain characters at the end. (Who is alive? Who is dead? What team are they on?) It is cheaper and easier to get that kind of information from a summary.

    Meanwhile, Batman has been (by most accounts) worth reading, not just as a summary.
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  12. #72
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    As I said, it's most likely. It's a pattern that I've seen and I wouldn't be surprised if they never follow up. Maybe they just like to lurk. But IMO if you're going to disparage a fan group as this person has done and don't have a reply to those who dispute their opinion you're just trolling.
    So maybe ignore them? I nearly bit too but why.

  13. #73
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    The problem is the type of event that "Phoenix Resurrection" is. The most important thing is the dispostion of certain characters at the end. (Who is alive? Who is dead? What team are they on?) It is cheaper and easier to get that kind of information from a summary.

    Meanwhile, Batman has been (by most accounts) worth reading, not just as a summary.
    I wish I had waited for it to pop up on MU. It is maybe two issues of interesting story. Meanwhile it derailed a perfectly good book that had its ending screwed with and then people blamed that book for the continuity issues. Really poor show overall. It didn’t deserve to sell that well and that will only encourage Marvel to keep pulling this stunt.

    Third time in recent months the X-Office has done this. I should learn.

    Batman is OK but judging by how far behind I now am I am clearly not loving it.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 02-15-2018 at 02:53 AM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Meanwhile, Batman has been (by most accounts) worth reading, not just as a summary.
    Tom King's Batman run is horrid. I'm flabbergasted that anyone reads it and thinks "Hmm, that was good!"

    I mean, to each their own but I've tried to get into his run because I've liked his writing elsewhere but I literally wince at the dialogue.

    If you could MST3K a comic, King's Batman would be a prime candidate.

  15. #75
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Tom King's Batman run is horrid. I'm flabbergasted that anyone reads it and thinks "Hmm, that was good!"

    I mean, to each their own but I've tried to get into his run because I've liked his writing elsewhere but I literally wince at the dialogue.

    If you could MST3K a comic, King's Batman would be a prime candidate.
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