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  1. #1
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Default Jurgens & Tomasi's Rebirth runs in retrospect (so far)

    While each creator still has a few more issues to wrap things up, I think we've seen enough of their runs to star being able to judge how well they worked out.

    Overall, I think they each accomplished what they were trying to do, but neither excited me as much as I wanted to be.

    I have never been a big fan of Jurgens, so it was pretty much what I expected. However, I think virtually every single storyarc was padded for the trade. I can't think of even one that needed to as long as they were. The Mr. Oz reveal was interesting, but nothing was done with it whatsoever. Superman Reborn was the only story that really had an impact and that's only because of its massive continuity-bending implications. However, like I said, Jurgens is not really my cup of tea, so I will leave this to people who are genuine fans of his style.

    Tomasi is a creator whose writing I've enjoyed for years. That said, I think he had more misses than hits here. The early stuff with Lois & Jon in Hamilton was great, but once editorial mandated they return to Metropolis, I can't say I enjoyed much of anything aside from that absolutely amazing one-off with the cancer kids. That is an all-time great Superman comic.

  2. #2
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Action Comics / Jurgens: A-

    Superman / Tomasi: B

    Aside from being a big Jurgens fan, Action just seemed more solid. We've had a beginning, a middle, and will presumably get an end with the one-shot coming up. Like you mentioned, the stories have all had that "written for the trade" feel, so that bumps down what would otherwise be an A rateing.

    Tomasi's run, while good, has been less consistent. The fill-in arcs were "meh" at best, and I'm not a crazy big fan of Jon, although he's grown on me a bit since the beginning.
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  3. #3
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    I was going to make this thread once the specials were out, but since you beat me to it.

    In case it needs to be said. This is what I thought of the books, I'm aware that most people have enjoyed both books and are big fans of both runs.

    Jurgens

    His run was terrible all the way through. Some issues weren't as bad as others, and the run did improve as time passed but it never got good. The revenge arc was the best the run offered.

    Tomasi & Gleason

    Son of Superman - It's terrible, but in the Action Comics #775 way. #775 is regarded by many as one of the best Superman stories ever, but it was done in the "Superman is awesome, OK!? " way I thought. As time passes, I dislike both stories more and more.

    Our Town - Really good. One of the best Superman stories in recent years.

    Escape from Dinosaur Island - Mediocre

    World's Smallest - Good

    Super-Monster - Bad

    Multiplicity - Bad

    Dark Harvest - Good

    Superman Reborn - Bad

    Black Dawn - Bad

    Road Trip - Bad

    Imperius Lex - Bad

    Super Sons of Tomorrow - Skipped it due to crossing over with Teen Titans

    Goodnight Moon - Good

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'm with you on pretty much all of that. Only thing I would slightly differ on is I think Jurgen's run got decent enough after Superman Reborn that I'd say it surpassed "bad" and made it into the "okay" realm. Still nothing to write home about but it got some of the stench off of it. I'd give it overall a D+, the post-Reborn stuff keeping it from being a dumpster fire. Superman on the other hand was an odd toss up of either really good, or incredibly bad. There was no in between and the whole thing ended up being a wash because of it. End of the day it probably evens out to an overall C- for me. The minus for way freaking too much Jon, and too much Batman and Damian.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 03-06-2018 at 06:55 PM.
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  5. #5
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    I've said my thoughts about several times on here, but I was really picky and annoyed with both runs at the start because of being a new 52 only fan and saddened by new 52 superman dying the way he did, it was hard to enjoy the Superman comics when it felt like the character I was reading for several years was thrown the wayside for older fans.

    While I sorta tolerated both runs, I didn't really start to like the comics till right before Reborn when I decided to look more into post crisis Superman, reading why so many people enjoyed him compared to new 52 Superman. After seeing how great of a character he was and reading more and more comics set in the preflashpoint era, I slowly turned around my thoughts o these runs and really began to appreciate them.

    So, with that in mind I'd say Jurgen's Action Comics run is still pretty mediocre overall. His run had to deal with too much of the fallout from new 52 superman's death & teasing doomsday clock with the mr oz stuff that we didn't really get to see any plot lines contained to Action Comics itself. On one hand, I think a comic like this was necessary with the messy switcheroo they were trying to pull with n52 superman and post crisis Superman, but it just makes for a comic that will only be remembered for explaining how post crisis Superman and his family lived in the new 52 universe. But even then, that leads to another problem with this run, it doesn't matter how post crisis Superman and his family lived in this universe because DC merged him with new 52 superman in reborn, making the entire run redundant. Besides having to deal too much with continuity, we also had to deal with typical Jurgens dialogue, redundant recaps at the beginning of each issue, unnecessary suicide squad crossover...just overall, a very disorganized run, even though it meant well. But hey, at least there was good art.


    Tomasi and Gleason had a much better run, that will be remembered more fondly in my book. The book left Jurgens to deal with explaining the status quo, so this book could specifically explore the Kent's town life in Hamilton. While after the manchaster black story, the book has felt directionless, I think overall it's still a good run though and I'm hoping the boyzarro arc ends the book on a high note.

  6. #6
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Action Comics
    + fantastic covers, new looks for the character from uncommon artists
    + long term plotting, featuring many new and old characters
    + good balance of family
    - padded story length
    - occasional gaffes in story logic or continuity
    - Brett Booth guest art
    Overall: aside from a middling guest story (Only Human) and some of the pacing issues from running biweekly, it's been a cool comic. #957-984 was the first time in years that I enjoyed more than 20 issues straight, even if the decompression hampered the first read through. I give it a B.

    Superman
    + great art, more consistent in styles
    + big action
    + tight focus on core cast
    - some issues with little to offer
    - too much focus on Jon, sometimes
    - underwhelming conclusions to big ideas
    - more fill-in writing
    Overall: there was a real stop and start issue whenever it seemed able to build some momentum. I'd say aside from the stories up to the Frankenstein two parter, the best was from Keith Champagne and the recent James Robinson story. I give it a C.

  7. #7
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    I think I agree with the B (Action) and C (Superman) votes here.

    For Action, I think very few people could have done better with what they were given than Jurgens - which was made even harder by the fact that you can tell that editorial changed things mid-stream several times on him or stepped things up or pushed them back.

    His Rebirth run was building to several things that had a longer resolution - you could tell that (the Lois' port-mortem exchange, etc). And I think Mxy was meant to be a longer-term build, as well. Then they decided to wrap it all up fairly quickly. After that, it was dealing with the change and setting up the new basics of how things are and being in a holding pattern due to "Doomsday Clock" (or something else?). Everything DOES feel overly padded, and Jurgens's strength is definitely NOT in padding. So it feels like a mandated thing. Especially how things wrap up without fully wrapping up; the Oz reveal was good but didn't have real "meat" other than Superman now knowing... things like that. The touted "big reveals" kept disappointing the same way, and if really feel off considering what he's done before. So I tend to think that he kinda had a hand tied behind his back in the run. That said, I definitely enjoyed it, but enjoyed it that much more for what I knew had to be coming once he was able to really play. That I never got that really sucks... but I'm still glad to have that run.

    Tomasi, on the other hand, was able to, metaphorically-speaking, gorge himself on ice cream while his older brother (Jurgens) did chores, lol... and the freeing, sweeping feeling of the early stories really shine for this. After awhile, it feels like the energy kinda runs out (except for bits here and there), and I feel that the endings of these sometimes suffer from the same problems as Jurgens's endings... which makes me wonder if editorial was getting involved for some larger/other purpose.
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  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Superman: I really enjoyed the earlier part of Superman run. Loved it. Till Reborn i think it was among the best runs in DC Rebirth line. Being fun but on the backdrop of the tragedy of being lost in a new world was fantastic to me. I was seeing Superman in a new way since i loved Superman TAS(which i watched in early 2000s). It was that long before some kind of Superman worked for me. Granted it was also the time when i really started reading comic books.

    After Reborn there was a drop in quality in my opinion. Black Dawn started well and was interesting till that Lois issue. After that it has been very uneven. Road Trip maybe among the worst two issues i have read. The fill in work were mostly good. Return of Tomasi was weak. Good start and nice couple of issues and a poor ending. It has been like that, weak endings to promising and often fun starts. It was as if getting Superman out of Hamilton and the new Superman Post-Reborn, was not Tomasi's cup of tea. A couple of nice issues here and there. But it was weak.

    I would have to go with mixed to positive. First half was really really good in my opinion, followed by some uneven work.


    Action Comics:
    I thought the run by Jurgens till Reborn was fine. Nothing very good. But okay to good. But Post Reborn i think it was some solid work. I had a couple of issues with Jurgens' writing. Dialogue was a bit bland. Character work was not to my satisfaction. But i enjoyed it. Action packed which was at times frenetic. Nothing really special. But good and solid work.

    I would say a good job.


    Will keep an eye on both of their future work. Overall i enjoyed the Rebirth run of Superman books. Hope i will enjoy Bendis' work just as well.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 03-06-2018 at 09:30 PM.

  9. #9
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    I'll talk about Action later

    Son of Superman great
    Dinosaur Island great
    Frankenstein arc good
    Batman and Robin arc great
    The one shot fantastic
    Multiplicity dropped ball
    Reborn great
    Black Dawn good
    The fillers with the other creative teams were solid and enjoyable including the recent one with Robinson
    The trip arc was bad
    Imperius Lex was passable
    Super Sons of Tomorrow was uneven, first and last issues were great but the middle chapters were not good.
    The one shot with the JL was very good.

  10. #10
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    Jurgen's run was a solid B- for me, I'm probably overrating it a bit but I've had so much fun enjoying MY Superman again that I'm willing to do so. The pre-Reborn stuff was a blast with one of the better Doomsday stories I've read in a while, Men of Steel was great, I loved the awkwardness and creepy behavior of Myx posing as Clark. After Reborn we got that blistering Revenge Squad story. Oz Effect was a bit dry and could have been better, but Booster Shot was a return to form.

    Tomasi and Gleeson's run was fun, pre-reborn stuff ranged from decent to excellent, but I agree that after the family shifted away from Hamilton the book felt rudderless. I'll happily defend the Kent roadtrip everybody hated right up until the ending, Black Dawn was unnecessarily dark and some of it felt like bait (I remember we were coming up with more compelling stories for it's aftermath in our heads, imagine if Lois had remained an amputee), I'd give it a C+
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 03-07-2018 at 03:07 AM.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Superman started out really strong. At the time I was still pissed off that so much of New 52 Superman has been erased but Tomasi and Gleason won me over for a bit. Conversely I think Action started out rather weak. As Action got better, Superman started to slip (The road trip issue was one of the worst stories I’ve read in years). I think by the end they both met in the below average range. I’d give them both around a C+ or B-.
    Last edited by Robotman; 03-07-2018 at 03:53 AM.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Jurgen's run was a solid B- for me, I'm probably overrating it a bit but I've had so much fun enjoying MY Superman again that I'm willing to do so. The pre-Reborn stuff was a blast with one of the better Doomsday stories I've read in a while, Men of Steel was great, I loved the awkwardness and creepy behavior of Myx posing as Clark. After Reborn we got that blistering Revenge Squad story. Oz Effect was a bit dry and could have been better, but Booster Shot was a return to form.

    Tomasi and Gleeson's run was fun, pre-reborn stuff ranged from decent to excellent, but I agree that after the family shifted away from Hamilton the book felt rudderless. I'll happily defend the Kent roadtrip everybody hated right up until the ending, Black Dawn was unnecessarily dark and some of it felt like bait (I remember we were coming up with more compelling stories for it's aftermath in our heads, imagine if Lois had remained an amputee), I'd give it a C+
    I agree with you about pre-reborn Action. Doomsday,Men of Steel and the Clark mystery were all pretty good if not very good in my opinion. I enjoyed those issues. For a long point of time Wednesday meant Superman day. I would be waiting for the next issue to see what happens next. It changed towards the end when i felt that Superman was loosing its steam. But it was still a very good time for me.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    They got me to care and spend money on Superman. Things I've never done before.

  14. #14
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Huh. I guess I'll have to re-check this thread in 5 yrs, after everyone's nostalgia glasses have fogged up...
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  15. #15
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    I'm actually not a fan of Jurgens as a writer. On the other hand, I love Tomasi's writing. That being said...

    Superman A-

    Action Comics B-
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