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  1. #16
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    About dang time.

    Thoughts on the preview:

    - I think we have a new winner for the 'Worst looking Orphan costume' award. Really it just looks awful there on the second page.
    - Really hate that they haven't aged Leslie up with Rebirth.
    - Cass's unwarranted self-loathing here is true to her early days. I'd noticed it getting a bit more prominent lately and now, considering Tynion has said he felt he was writing NML era Cass and wanted to re-develop her, I'm wondering if he was planning on rehashing the Death Wish storyline.
    - I quite like Bruce feeling like s**t and getting called out by Leslie. He really f**ked up here and, again, feels more than a little meta.
    - Is that Tim or Damian staring down at Bruce and Leslie? I can't tell.
    - Kate is very lucky she said 'today' and not 'tonight', otherwise I'd have to be annoyed with her, like Bruce, for cribbing one of Cass's most iconic lines...actually, f**k it, it still annoys me.
    - This is basically half the comic right here. Why?
    - Pleasantly surprised that this isn't just all Kate and Tim.
    This is kind of a late preview.

    Fernandez is probably one of my least favorite artists in the Rebirth stable. I loathed his art for Nightwing (and am forever bitter than Marcus To didn't get a second arc, since his first one was SO PRETTY!) I agree that those weird balloony legs on the Orphan costume are ridiculous looking. I suppose it make sense for "movement" or something, but, blech.
    Pretty sure any Robin you see in a Tynion comic that isn't explicitly someone else will always be Tim.
    It's probably half the comic because it's so late.
    Hey, Tynion kept his promise - he has plans for Cass in the spring!

    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    It's not me, dude. She just keeps finding new ways.
    Well, since I still love Kate (at least in Tec, though not in her solo, sorry Caivu), I think at least part of it is based on personal reaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleGlovez View Post
    I hope this results in the total and permanent dissolution of the entire Bat-family. I would like to see Detective Comics return to more solo detective Batman stories and I think it’s rather ridiculous that Batman has the largest cast of supporting costumed partners in comics. I would like to see most of the Bat-family retired or killed off and the rest relegated to their own titles and not affecting Batman’s main titles.
    I don't think that'll happen. As for hating on the other characters...welp. All I can do is disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I really can't take young Leslie seriously. It feels like Carlie Cooper just wandered into the DCU after leaving Amazing Spider-Man.

    Batwoman actually looks good with the Colony logo on her chest.
    Why would you bring up that dark time of Spider-Man? Oh, because it's still here.

    I do think that Leslie having such vivid hair color is really dumb. I just read Batman Year Two for the first time, and I really liked seeing Leslie there (even if the emotional beats are pretty much identical to Devin Grayson's excellent issue of Batman Chronicles in No Man's Land). I don't see why Leslie has to be so young. Or red haired! What happened to black haired Leslie from Batman #52? C'mon, Tynion! Pull some strings with the colorist and make it right!

    That entrance with Batwoman, Batwing, and Azrael makes me so happy, even if I don't really think it'll end well. Tynion really knows how to make an entrance with his characters, and Fernandez, for all my complaints, does full justice to it.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  2. #17
    Incredible Member Rakiduam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleGlovez View Post
    I hope this results in the total and permanent dissolution of the entire Bat-family. I would like to see Detective Comics return to more solo detective Batman stories and I think itís rather ridiculous that Batman has the largest cast of supporting costumed partners in comics. I would like to see most of the Bat-family retired or killed off and the rest relegated to their own titles and not affecting Batmanís main titles.

    Also, NO to adopting Cassandra Cain again. I would like to not see or think about her after this arc is over.
    Yes, let's get back to the good old days of 1939

  3. #18
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakiduam View Post
    Yes, let's get back to the good old days of 1939
    I remember them well. Batman with a gun...
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I remember them well. Batman with a gun...
    Punching dudes into vats of acid and hanging them from the batplane...
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  5. #20
    Mighty Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Punching dudes into vats of acid and hanging them from the batplane...
    Murdering them left and right...

  6. #21
    Mighty Member KrustyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    I think he's pissed because he thought that Bruce believed in his idea of a cohesive crime fighting force to make a real impact in Gotham. But then he finds out that Bruce was just playing him, he was using Tim's big/passionate idea to "help" his cousin. He essentially used Tim as cover and made his pet project all about Kate. Normally I'm pro Bruce/anti-family, but in this instance I'm kinda with Tim on this one. Mostly because Bruce did all this for Kate, I just don't buy he would go far for her, and use Tim to do it.
    Yah, looking at it that way it would only make sense Tim would come out a lil salty in light of all of that.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleGlovez View Post
    I hope this results in the total and permanent dissolution of the entire Bat-family. I would like to see Detective Comics return to more solo detective Batman stories and I think itís rather ridiculous that Batman has the largest cast of supporting costumed partners in comics. I would like to see most of the Bat-family retired or killed off and the rest relegated to their own titles and not affecting Batmanís main titles.

    Also, NO to adopting Cassandra Cain again. I would like to not see or think about her after this arc is over.
    I agree with all of this with the exception of killing.

    Love and missed Javi Fernandez.

    No point in adopting Cass since Tynion is leaving anyway and if Tomasi takes over then he wont acknowledge it anyway which would give Assam a heart attack.

  8. #23
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    I don't see why Bruce couldn't be doing multiple things - he's doing this because he wants to shape the vigilante heroes in the city, as he told Tim in the first arc of this run, he's also trying to prevent them from going evil, as Steph said in the second arc, he's trying to make Tim happy, as we found out over the course of the flashbacks through the whole run, he's trying to save Kate from the Colony as Babs said last issue - it's all there. I don't think any of them were really overriding any others.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    So, you want Batman to essentially have his own series, with minimal input from the other members of the Bat Family?

    You are aware of the series titles "Batman", correct? Other than some cameos, it is primarily about Batman doing Batman things.

    Otherwise, I have to echo Caivu's "Boo!" here.
    Yes
    That one has essentially become Batman and Catwoman doing shipper things

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbatos666 View Post

    No point in adopting Cass since Tynion is leaving anyway and if Tomasi takes over then he wont acknowledge it anyway which would give Assam a heart attack.
    The flaw in this logic is that it assumes Cass will be going to limbo and won't have another book where she's present and it can be acknowledged and have the relationship sometimes shown. While it is possible she's heading to limbo, I don't currently think that's going to happen (I don't think Tynion would do the adoption at all if that was going to happen since he's criticized that same thing happening the first time around) and if it does happen, I won't be having any heart attack, I'm just gonna be giving a middle finger to DC Comics and stop reading their books and paying attention to the universe until she's back.
    Last edited by Assam; 03-13-2018 at 08:42 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    The flaw in this logic is that it assumes Cass will be going to limbo and won't have another book where she's present and it can be acknowledged and have the relationship sometimes shown. While it is possible she's heading to limbo, I don't currently think that's going to happen (I don't think Tynion would do the adoption at all if that was going to happen since he's criticized that same thing happening the first time around) and if it does happen, I won't be having any heart attack, I'm just gonna be giving a middle finger to DC Comics and stop reading their books and paying attention to the universe until she's back.
    I think her book will involve BOP or Batgirl, those are already on the cusp of being out of canon. As for Tynion, he underestimated the circumstances the first time around, DC did for appeasement, Tynion will likely have the same reasons, irony lol.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    If Cass isn't adopted by Bruce at the end of this run, I'll be sad, especially since things are leaning that way.

    Kinda fun seeing Kate finally get to take on some Talons, since she wasn't officially included in "Night of the Owls" way back when. Though Luke and JPV weren't either, I guess. It's also a callback to #938, where the Court of Owls was already on the proto-Colony's radar when it was first formed.

    I was glad to see Jean-Paul bringing up that the Colony kicked the crap out of him earlier; it would have been weird for him to join and not have that get mentioned. I'm good with both his and Luke's reasons for joining; Luke doesn't have any pressing responsibilities in Gotham and it fits with his "try anything" sort of personality, and JPV made a deal to use some Colony resources to help find the rest of St. Dumas, in addition to joining the only real friend he has in Luke.

    One thing I hope we get to see is more of what the rest of the Colony thinks of this new power structure. Even before it was made official, I have to think at least some of them would be pretty mad about a newcomer taking the reigns, even if she *is* the boss's daughter (the nepotism would make it even worse, most likely). At the very least, Colony Prime's going to be pissed, and it was telling that he wasn't present.

    Looks like Ulysses could be who causes Tim to turn, if indeed he does? It could work; he's on the outs with the Colony, and not friend of Batman, so he's got motive to pit the two against each other like never before.
    end of spoilers

    Lot of ground still to cover in just five issues.
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  13. #28
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    spoilers:
    If Cass isn't adopted by Bruce at the end of this run, I'll be sad, especially since things are leaning that way.

    Kinda fun seeing Kate finally get to take on some Talons, since she wasn't officially included in "Night of the Owls" way back when. Though Luke and JPV weren't either, I guess. It's also a callback to #938, where the Court of Owls was already on the proto-Colony's radar when it was first formed.

    I was glad to see Jean-Paul bringing up that the Colony kicked the crap out of him earlier; it would have been weird for him to join and not have that get mentioned. I'm good with both his and Luke's reasons for joining; Luke doesn't have any pressing responsibilities in Gotham and it fits with his "try anything" sort of personality, and JPV made a deal to use some Colony resources to help find the rest of St. Dumas, in addition to joining the only real friend he has in Luke.

    One thing I hope we get to see is more of what the rest of the Colony thinks of this new power structure. Even before it was made official, I have to think at least some of them would be pretty mad about a newcomer taking the reigns, even if she *is* the boss's daughter (the nepotism would make it even worse, most likely). At the very least, Colony Prime's going to be pissed, and it was telling that he wasn't present.

    Looks like Ulysses could be who causes Tim to turn, if indeed he does? It could work; he's on the outs with the Colony, and not friend of Batman, so he's got motive to pit the two against each other like never before.
    end of spoilers

    Lot of ground still to cover in just five issues.
    spoilers:
    I think SOMETHING needs to change with Cass's situation and relationship with Bruce. Though the final cover with the team all swinging away could either be positive or negative.

    I also appreciated that Jean-Paul brought up his encounter in 934. I love the sense that Tynion is trying to be as careful as possible.

    There are a couple of dialogue issues - too often, Tynion includes a line he needs for the next line to make sense, but the line itself makes no sense at all - Tim saying "I know it's been rough on me." I know he's leading to Bruce showing how much he loves Tim and is worried, but that just doesn't work as a line by itself or with what comes before it. And there's a couple more like that. But on the whole, I love the relationships Tynion's working with. Nice to see that the book is on good footing starting the final arc.

    I'll be very curious to see if League of Shadows and Intelligence have repercussions - I hope so, since I was hoping Tynion would use the last 25 issues of his run to wrap all that up, and now he has a fifth of that.

    Colony Prime...I really wonder if he's going to show up in this arc. That might be too much, but I did enjoy what a jerk he was in the issues he's been in.

    I firmly believe that Tynion does not intend to go the Bat-Tim route. I think Ulysses could serve as a wake up call for Tim - show how far he's come when Steph and Bruce couldn't reach him.
    end of spoilers

    (I listened to a podcast with Tim Seeley about the writing of Nightwing, and it really shed some light on why Steph's arc may have gone so badly awry. Seeley said that in his first few issues, he had to rewrite all three of the ones he'd written in one week and then write the fourth issue in the next week because of changes resulting from Night of the Monster Men - that kind of time pressure resulting in changes resulting from bumping up against other books really puts a limit on your ability to juggle things, which explains a lot about how Steph and Tim's arc has been deformed by the changes required by the Button's last minute change.)
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  14. #29
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    Can someboddy explain to me how there are still Talons around at this point? Wasn't the parliament of owls finally destroyed in Nightwing?

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Can someboddy explain to me how there are still Talons around at this point? Wasn't the parliament of owls finally destroyed in Nightwing?
    If so, that doesn't mean there aren't remnants. Jacob says there's still pockets of them across the globe.
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