Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19
  1. #1

    Default Sequel Trilogy Villains less of a threat?

    So I've been doing some thinking about the sequel Trilogy's villains and I think we may have a problem. Simply put I've found the villains to be well less of a threat. Hux being the prime example. I feel like I can take this guy as my regular self. A villain should always pose a threat. Otherwise there's no conflict.

    That said the First Order seems to lack that presence. Am I missing something? If so what is it? If not what can be done to make them intimidating again?

  2. #2
    Fantastic Member Anthony W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE View Post
    So I've been doing some thinking about the sequel Trilogy's villains and I think we may have a problem. Simply put I've found the villains to be well less of a threat. Hux being the prime example. I feel like I can take this guy as my regular self. A villain should always pose a threat. Otherwise there's no conflict.

    That said the First Order seems to lack that presence. Am I missing something? If so what is it? If not what can be done to make them intimidating again?
    Nothing. Isn't it awesome how your expectations were subverted?

  3. #3
    Mighty Member ChrisIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,841

    Default

    As of now, Kylo Ren is pretty much the Emperor/supreme leader, something that his grandfather-in part-aspired to, but never accomplished, in part due to his own physical weaknesses, and also his sort of compassion for Luke. He did of course overthrow the Emperor, but at fatal cost to himself. Unless you count his scar, Kylo has no such physical limitations, although there's still possible emotional ones.

    Also the First Order as of now seems to have a much larger fleet than the resistance and what's left of the Republic. (Snoke's resistance-chasing fleet wasn't the whole fleet, as Rey says their military is taking over what's left of the Republic)

    Hux I think is simply carrying on the Star Wars trope of the cowardly hench-villain, as we see with most of Palpatine/Vader's officers in the OT (with the exception of Tarkin, although his hubris kind of did them in) as well as the Trade Federation and their allies in the PT. Also Krennic, who pretty much got outmaneuvered and ovveridden at every turn by Vader, Tarkin, and the Ersos.
    chrism227.wordpress.com Info and opinions on a variety of interests.

    https://twitter.com/chrisprtsmouth

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    As of now, Kylo Ren is pretty much the Emperor/supreme leader, something that his grandfather-in part-aspired to, but never accomplished, in part due to his own physical weaknesses, and also his sort of compassion for Luke.
    Also of note, Kylo doesn't have a powerful apprentice plotting to overthrow him. Vader and Palpatine wasted a lot of energy and resources going behind each other's backs.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,654

    Default

    They are all pretty weak. Hux is a damn cartoon character thanks to Johnson. Kylo Ren is an unstable nut job who can't control his temper. Phasma is just a sad case of bad writing. Snoke .... well we all so how Johnson handled that character.

    All of them had promise but none of them are going to be remembered on the same level as a Vader or and Palpatine. Hell they will not even be remembered on the same level as Jabba or Boba Fett.

  6. #6
    Fantastic Member Anthony W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    They are all pretty weak. Hux is a damn cartoon character thanks to Johnson. Kylo Ren is an unstable nut job who can't control his temper. Phasma is just a sad case of bad writing. Snoke .... well we all so how Johnson handled that character.

    All of them had promise but none of them are going to be remembered on the same level as a Vader or and Palpatine. Hell they will not even be remembered on the same level as Jabba or Boba Fett.
    Or Darth Maul. Kylo Ren is just not intimidating. Hopefully JJ introduces the Knights Of Ren and some of them will actually come off as great villains.

  7. #7
    Mighty Member ChrisIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,841

    Default

    Kind of curious who Solo's antagonist is going to be. While of course the Empire is going to be involved, there's been no indication of any major Imperial threat apart from the usual Stormtroopers. There's a character that looks kind of like a cross between Fett and Plasma some feel might be the villain (Enfys Nest or something like that), or perhaps Woody Harrelson's character could end up being a sort of baddie.
    chrism227.wordpress.com Info and opinions on a variety of interests.

    https://twitter.com/chrisprtsmouth

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Or Darth Maul. Kylo Ren is just not intimidating. Hopefully JJ introduces the Knights Of Ren and some of them will actually come off as great villains.
    Ehhh... I don't think I'd trust them to be able to make the Knights of Ren a significant threat and unique all in one movie. Might be better to save them for a tv series or something.

  9. #9
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,360

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    As of now, Kylo Ren is pretty much the Emperor/supreme leader, something that his grandfather-in part-aspired to, but never accomplished, in part due to his own physical weaknesses, and also his sort of compassion for Luke. He did of course overthrow the Emperor, but at fatal cost to himself. Unless you count his scar, Kylo has no such physical limitations, although there's still possible emotional ones.
    You make it sound as if Vader was inferior to Kylo, when in actuality it was just that Kylo's boss Snoke was far easier to punk than Emperor Palpatine.

    The First Order is sadly, a bunch of clowns. Kylo captured Poe than left him in a cell with ONE guard and the door wide open. Poe escapes. Then Kylo captured Rey, and apparently not learning a damn thing, leaves his prisoner once again with ONE lone guard and the door wide open!!! At least Princess Leia (in "A New Hope") had an entire security team guarding her with her cell shut. (And even then the rescue plan didn't exactly go as planned, what with the heroes having to jump down a garbage shoot and the Imperials letting them escape so they could track them.)
    "The White Queen welcomes you, TO DIE!"

  10. #10
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,952

    Default

    I agree with the OP and most of you guys. The FO, at least as portrayed in TLJ, is a slow, lumbering and incompetent pastiche of the Empire, instead of the inferred sleek, lean, and more canny villains Lawrence Kasdan portrayed them as in TFA. Hux goes from energetic, fanatical and logical to sniveling, dull, and incompetent, the FO's technological growth in comparison to the Empire in TFA is ignored in favor of making them slow and generally unintimidating, and Kylo Ren doesn't get to grow in TLJ, leaving him just as pitiable and fallible as he was at the end of TFA and now in charge of the entire enemy faction.

    If you want to hear more on my argument, follow the link : https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=2&i=408109126
    "OH, SNAP!" INFINITY WAR PODCAST! https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=2&i=410621429
    THE FORCE AWAKENS VS THE LAST JEDI! PODCAST https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=2&i=408109126
    BLACK PANTHER PODCAST https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=2&i=406994785
    TEEN TITANS (03) VS TEEN TITANS GO! PODCAST https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=2&i=400482734

  11. #11
    iMan 42s
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,006

    Default

    Phasma. She doesn't accomplish anything really through TFA and TLJ. Other than that Kylo Ren despite being a lunatic is pretty much the only villain so far to do just fine.

    The First Order despite losing Starkiller base destabilized the power structure of the New Republic, reduced the Jedi to one, reduced the resistance to fitting on the Falcon, strained Luke to the point he died (though they couldn't have known that when it happened), centralized command structure while the Resistance lost its (though part of that is to actually losing Carrie Fisher), and taking the resistance base.

    They overall are pretty successful as far as Star Wars villains go. They didn't take 20 years to consolidate power, they just built up resources and in the span of a few galactic days kicked ass. They killed two OT heroes and destabilized the galactic government. That's impressive as far as trilogy factions go.
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    3,054

    Default

    Phasma: I can see Phasma here. They did nothing with her for two films. Boba Fett at least tracked Solo in Empire Strikes Back. For build up before every film she was wasted each time. She can survive and be used. And can be effective. Hans Gruber had only one film. Joker appeared on screen for only 20 minutes in Dark Knight. So, screen time is not that big of an issue. But in how you use them. Since, the Knights of Ren are going to appear, i say forget her and focus on them. That would be best. She died. Full stop.

    Hux: I enjoyed Hux when he was used in a comedic situation as in The Last Jedi. But he was more threatening when he wasn't used to get comedy in TFA. So, take these two ideas for Hux if you want him to appear more threatening (even if i am fine with him being used as in The Last Jedi):

    1. From Tarkin learn that to make him appear threatening make him appear untouchable. One reason Tarkin is so threatening is because he appeared like someone who had some control on Vader. He looked like he owned the place. This is not easy as Kylo actually owns the place. But make him look untouchable. In TLJ he was pushed around. First Snoke threw him around. Later, Kylo did twice. First, by using the force choke. Later, he literally threw him around by Force. That shall not happen. Make him stand straight as Tarkin. It would help.

    2. From Krennic learn that even a guy who is not in charge can be good. Krennic was shown his place. But a serious tone helped him. Stop using him for comedy, and it would help.

    Kylo Ren: Whatever they are doing with Kylo Ren is working. Both directors have done a great job. I don't see how he could be less threatening. Is he Vader? No, he is not. So, many villains in film history are not Vader. To be as good as Vader you have to be like Hans Grueber, like Hannibal Lecter, like Wicked Witch of the West. In short, you can't be one. Nor do you need to. Forge your own path. I love his complexity, even if for that they gave away a bit of that 'threatening' aspect of other villains. I love Kylo Ren.

    Snoke: I don't see how he is less threatening. He was really impressive. So, much so that Kylo had to cheat to kill him. And he's dead. You can't improve him.

    First Order: You have destroyed the New Republic and taken over the galaxy. So, you are basically the new Empire. That's impressive. Just don't get beaten by critters like Ewoks. Battle the Wookies.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,200

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    Phasma. She doesn't accomplish anything really through TFA and TLJ. Other than that Kylo Ren despite being a lunatic is pretty much the only villain so far to do just fine.

    The First Order despite losing Starkiller base destabilized the power structure of the New Republic, reduced the Jedi to one, reduced the resistance to fitting on the Falcon, strained Luke to the point he died (though they couldn't have known that when it happened), centralized command structure while the Resistance lost its (though part of that is to actually losing Carrie Fisher), and taking the resistance base.

    They overall are pretty successful as far as Star Wars villains go. They didn't take 20 years to consolidate power, they just built up resources and in the span of a few galactic days kicked ass. They killed two OT heroes and destabilized the galactic government. That's impressive as far as trilogy factions go.
    Being successful in no way makes a villain more threatening in a story. A threat has to be built, it's an emotional response that must be earned. It's something Lucas built in the very first shot of A New Hope: we see the first starship bust onto the screen. "Oh man, that's cool!" and then it's followed by another and that ship slowly takes up the whole screen to the point that we can't even see where it ends. It dwarfs the first ship, it's very shadow looming over it, that ship is running for it's life, doing every thing it can to escape and the other is just taking everything that ship can dish out and gradually following along with the barest amount of effort. The conclusion is forgone, that second ship known the first will not escape; it's efforts are futile and it fills the audience with dread. Inside the door bursts open, smoke fills the screen and a horde of soldiers in white skull like masks invade the ship easily overpowering the rebels and when the dust clears, behind them stalks in another clad all in black who towers over the rest and that along with all the proceeding build up fills you with a sense of awe that immediately makes that guy as a threat in your mind. And it doesn't stop there, each further scene builds upon that initial experience creating a feeling in you so complete that his very image become a symbol in your mind, you simply see him and the mood changes.

    We never got that in new series.
    They started the formula, but did not follow through with Kylo. We got the giant ship looming over us. We got the over whelming attack. We got the dark and powerful figure....but instead of building on that we got scenes that mock his voice, him lashing out like a child, and his subordinates quietly mocking him. You never get a sense of foreboding from him after that first scene, you don't feel fear.

    And it's the same with the other villains.

  14. #14
    Incredible Member Rise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    797

    Default

    Because FO are bunch of incompetent clowns and I still don't understand how they manged to cause a big damage.

    But then again, the resistance are bunch of incompetent fools too.

  15. #15
    Fantastic Member Anthony W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    Because FO are bunch of incompetent clowns and I still don't understand how they manged to cause a big damage.

    But then again, the resistance are bunch of incompetent fools too.
    Finn did try to stop them from breaking into the bunker, but Rose ruined it...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •