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  1. #31
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Maybe. Personally, I didn't have a problem with the character, and I was one of those people who really wanted the "real" MJ to be in the series.
    Truthfully I did not mind Michelle Jones either. I just wish the film crew just saved themselves some grief not give her the nickname of character she totally isn't. Now every time the more hardcore SPider-Man fans see her they'll want to punch her in the face.


    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    That's what the director was saying when the movie was first announced. My understanding was that it was the tone of the series, not the characters, that was used.
    Okay well still they didn't need to make Tony Stark a key player though.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  2. #32
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    I Second on the Iron Man fanboy part and I think it cripples his MCU appearances in my eyes.
    I think it does hurt Homecoming as a standalone Spidey film, to a degree, that we have so much that hinges on another movie (Civil War) and another Marvel hero (Iron Man).

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Well those changes mainly Michelle Jones and Flash's race lifting didn't do them good. Michelle Jones would probably have not come under fire if they did not have her use MJ as a nickname in a weird way it makes her Homecoming's equivalent but not the exact counterpart of Mary Jane. Flash I just can't take seriously as a bully.
    I don't think Flash having a race lift was the problem with him. It's that his character was entirely different. Ned was changed to Asian in both Spectacular Spider-Man AND in Spider-Man Homecoming... but the character of Ned Leeds was more accurate in the former than the latter. Spectacular changed the races to a lot of minor characters yet kept the core elements intact. Just like stated prior in this thread, Homecoming's "Flash" was basically Harry before befriending Peter. The big shot who is only in the popular crowd because his family has money. Eugene isn't built to be an academic rival...

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Glad to see that i'm not the only one that thinks the same about this Flash Thompson being more like Harry . But seriously, even if the idea was making him a different kind of bully, is reallly inefective considering that Peter seems pretty indifferent toward him most of the time.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    I don't think Flash having a race lift was the problem with him. It's that his character was entirely different. Ned was changed to Asian in both Spectacular Spider-Man AND in Spider-Man Homecoming... but the character of Ned Leeds was more accurate in the former than the latter. Spectacular changed the races to a lot of minor characters yet kept the core elements intact. Just like stated prior in this thread, Homecoming's "Flash" was basically Harry before befriending Peter. The big shot who is only in the popular crowd because his family has money. Eugene isn't built to be an academic rival...
    Hmm great point but still why not just use Alystair Smythe as Peter's academic rival instead it would have made better sense.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  6. #36
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Hmm great point but still why not just use Alystair Smythe as Peter's academic rival instead it would have made better sense.
    The Marvel's Spider-Man cartoon kind of did that.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    This is just my prediction, but it feels like to me the reason they didn't wanna name Michelle "Mary Jane" is because of the character's big departure from what many people think as classic Mary Jane, and since they know how much people love her, and how mad they may get, they changed it so she would be the "MJ" of this series, just not specifically named "Mary Jane".
    Could be. My understanding was the "official" reason was a homage more than anything else. Whether you buy that or see the character as a reimagined, race-lifted MJ is somewhat "your mileage may vary." Personally, I never saw them as the same character (or an adaptation of that specific character).

    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    It's also why I think they were able to change Ned, Liz, and Flash, etc. so much, because not that many people care as much about them as her, so it's not as big a deal to give them such drastic differences.
    Maybe, although I do agree that their lesser-known status may have protected them from getting the kind of flack that Michael B. Jordan got for playing Human Torch or Idris Elba had when first announced to be playing Heimdel (although the latter did prove the naysayers wrong, showing that, at the end of the day, good acting trumps fidelity to the source material).

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Truthfully I did not mind Michelle Jones either. I just wish the film crew just saved themselves some grief not give her the nickname of character she totally isn't. Now every time the more hardcore SPider-Man fans see her they'll want to punch her in the face.
    I'm a hardcore Spidey fan and a "Spidey/MJ together is the only answer" advocate, and I have no desire to punch Michelle in the face. In fact, I like the character and am glad to hear that she'll be coming back for the sequels. The movies, the comics, the TV shows, etc. are all their own thing and stand on their own. Michelle Jones and her role in the films has nothing to do with MJ's in the other media.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    Okay well still they didn't need to make Tony Stark a key player though.
    I think that the main theme is Spidey learning that wanting to jump to the big leagues right away before he's ready is not the way to go, so you need a representative of the larger superhero community to be the face and voice of that community. Iron Man is the logical character for that role in this movie, based on Civil War. I'm pretty sure that the future movies won't have such a huge supporting character like that, since the "Spidey and the big leagues" tale has already been told. (Also worth noting, Iron Man's role in the movie is very much in line with Nick Fury's in the source material, so no matter how you slice it, it's not out of place, considering the version of Spidey they were drawing from.)
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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  8. #38
    Astonishing Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Honestly, those kind of changes are the reason of why i'm not very fond of Ultimate Spider-Man, instead of being a modernization of the characther, feel more like being different for the sake of being different, the idea of Peter having a mentor or him trying to be an Avenger is something that take away part of his appeal and what make him different to most of his derivatives like Tim Drake or Kamala Khan, at lesst IMO, nothing against the people that like it thougth, there is quality in the series, i just think that it doesn't live up to his fame.

  9. #39
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Honestly, those kind of changes are the reason of why i'm not very fond of Ultimate Spider-Man, instead of being a modernization of the characther, feel more like being different for the sake of being different, the idea of Peter having a mentor or him trying to be an Avenger is something that take away part of his appeal and what make him different to most of his derivatives like Tim Drake or Kamala Khan, at lesst IMO, nothing against the people that like it thougth, there is quality in the series, i just think that it doesn't live up to his fame.
    I still enjoy Ultimate as an Elseworlds and an alternative take on Spidey but I think overall Spectacular did a much better job of adapting and modernizing Spider-Man and his mythos.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The Marvel's Spider-Man cartoon kind of did that.
    There's always Eddie Brock if Alystair Smythe was unavailable. They remade Brock to be a lot smarter in Spectacular Spider-Man and it did wonders for his character in a way that did not betray his core.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 05-10-2018 at 01:53 AM.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I'm a hardcore Spidey fan and a "Spidey/MJ together is the only answer" advocate, and I have no desire to punch Michelle in the face. In fact, I like the character and am glad to hear that she'll be coming back for the sequels. The movies, the comics, the TV shows, etc. are all their own thing and stand on their own. Michelle Jones and her role in the films has nothing to do with MJ's in the other media.
    Okay maybe not every hardcore Spider-Man fan but still they were inviting a world of hurt onto themselves by giving Michelle Jones Mary Jane's nickname. I'm more interested in what her role even is at this point she did absolutely nothing in the first film and if she's not a romantic interest what is Michelle Jones's role going to be at this point other than to make snarky comments.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I still enjoy Ultimate as an Elseworlds and an alternative take on Spidey but I think overall Spectacular did a much better job of adapting and modernizing Spider-Man and his mythos.
    I completly agreed, a part of me resent the series because i think that it has affected the general direction of the franchise into something it really isn't, but i still recognize the quality.
    Last edited by TheCape; 05-10-2018 at 08:22 AM.

  13. #43
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    I will say that most recent adaptions of teenage Spider-Man ramp up the immaturity to 11, to put a lot of emphasis that he's "just a kid"...but Peter was dealing with a lot of adult problems when he was younger...


    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Hmm great point but still why not just use Alystair Smythe as Peter's academic rival instead it would have made better sense.
    Right. Because the rivalry is academia, where physicality doesn't matter they could have even used a female like Debra Whitman...or hell their "MJ" could have even been an academic rival (It would have given her more to do than tell Peter how much she thought he sucked every time she was in a 2 mile radius)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The Marvel's Spider-Man cartoon kind of did that.
    Did that...go...ANYWHERE? I haven't really kept up with the series. I've seen small parts here and there that were cool but the quality of that show tends to be like the readings of a seismometer.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    There's always Eddie Brock if Alystair Smythe was unavailable. They remade Brock to be a lot smarter in Spectacular Spider-Man and it did wonders for his character in a way that did not betray his core.
    They couldn't use Eddie because of Sony Spidey-Blocking the MCU...However we may have had the same problems with the MCU using Eddie in the place of their Flash...Eddie was still buff in Spectacular, so he still has the "imposing figure". I'll have to watch the first episode again but I think it was implied that Eddie played football in high school...But as you said they still kept his core...they didn't do that with Flash, or Ned, or "MJ"...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I completly agreed, a part of me resent the series because i think that it has affected the general direction of the franchose into something it really isn't, but i still recognize the quality.
    Please elaborate as I don't understand...

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Please elaborate as I don't understand...
    Well, since USM there had been a weird obssesion with giving Spider-Man mentors that guide him in the superhero path, trying to connect him more with the Avengers, the idea that Spider-Man is about youth (althougth for what i heard, some editors and writters were already thinking that in the 90s), or making him look more immature.

    I accept that i might be wrong, but it feel like they are turning him more and more in sort Ben 10 kind of characther or at least Marvel Team Up Spider-Man.

    Again, this might be my bias and i'm making a lot assumptions out nothing, so take it with a grain of sailt.
    Last edited by TheCape; 05-10-2018 at 09:05 AM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Well, since USM there had been a weird obssesion with giving Spider-Man mentors that guide him in the superhero path, trying to connect him more with the Avengers, the idea that Spider-Man is about youth (althougth for what i heard, some editors and writters were already thinking that in the 90s), or making him look more immature.

    I accept that i might be wrong, but it feel like they are turning him more and more in sort Ben 10 kind of characther or at least Marvel Team Up Spider-Man.

    Again, this might be my bias and i'm making a lot assumptions out nothing, so take it with a grain of sailt.
    I see. Ha I thought you were talking about the Spectacular cartoon steering the series. I can see what you mean, while most young heroes take a lot of attributes from Spider-Man, he still was pretty mature in his teenage years. Maybe it's because of the time period when the comics were written, as people were generally having to step up to the plate earlier in life. Nowadays it seems when someone writes for a teenage superhero they ramp up the obnoxiousness, hence feeling like the Ben Tennison character.

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