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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimo1 View Post
    Well, you have to start somewhere.
    Quite a few will stumble across TWD because of the T.V. show. Fewer will pay attention to the publisher, but still, very often having a brand makes people try other products as well.
    Let‘s take Apple as an example. Years ago I was one of the few who used Apple Computers. That has changed due to the iPhone. Nowadays people also buy laptops and computers and what else Apple sells.
    My saying is just that TWD is a bit like the iPhone, and I don‘t think it‘s really healthy for a company to rely on only one product if said product is part of a competative market. You run the risk of waning interest, and I feel the same might happen to Image.
    Once TWD stops airing, less exposure in general could result in fewer sales throughout all titles.
    But as pointed out the numbers of the other titles do not suggest that there actually is any connection in this case so what you have here is an idea without anything to back it up.
    There is nothing that suggests people starts reading other titles because of TWD in any significant numbers.

  2. #92
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    There is also the obvious uniformity in how Apple products operate.

    If the difference between the mechanics of using an Iphone and another Apple product was as stark as trying to read TWD and then trying to read Prism Stalker, Apple wouldn't last five minutes.

  3. #93
    Spectacular Member dimo1's Avatar
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    Of course I‘m aware of the differences, in any case, without a pull factor, whether it was the speculators’ boom of 90s or the TWD fanbase of today, Image runs the risk of falling into obscurity.
    My believe, I could be wrong of course.

  4. #94
    Writer of Jack The Hunted Power Torch's Avatar
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    Just posting this to see if it helps anyone, not sure if this was showed before. Here are the top sales for Image around the announcement and the air date for season one.

    Around announcement:

    Jan
    Haunt 4 26,420
    Walking Dead 69 23,695
    Chew 8 12,727

    Feb
    Walking Dead 70 23,999
    Haunt 5 22,454
    Image United 0 15,452

    Skip to around air date:

    Sep
    Walking Dead 77 27,448
    Haunt 9 17,894
    Morning Glories 8,265


    Oct

    Walking Dead 78 27,947
    Haunt 10 17,309
    Morning Glories 3 11,258

    Nov
    Walking Dead 79 28,971
    Haunt 11 16,658
    Morning Glories 4 11,292

    As you can guess, WD does get a big jump, now the other ones, not so much. Not saying this really means anything, cause a lot of factors go into these sales, and I'm not sure what else was going on at the time. But here you go everyone, hope this helps one of you lol.

    Personally, I don't think image is dead at all.

    Pulls:
    Valiant: Shadowman. Image/Top Cow: Aphrodite V, Cyber Force, Witchblade. DC: Justice League, Hawkman. Marvel: Runaways, Moon Knight. Insane: Jack The Hunted. Dynamite: Vampirella, Red Sonja.
    Check out Jack The Hunted from Insane Comics! Created and written by me! Issue 1-4 are out now. Thanks! Click here for more!

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimo1 View Post
    Of course I‘m aware of the differences, in any case, without a pull factor, whether it was the speculators’ boom of 90s or the TWD fanbase of today, Image runs the risk of falling into obscurity.
    My believe, I could be wrong of course.
    Obscurity? How? They are one of the biggest publishers today and have been so for quite some time. Disregarding Marvel and DC few companies have the presence Image has.
    The idea of a pull factor being a major factor here is simply not supported by any numbers we have available.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Larsen View Post
    In the case of Marvel and DC their strength is their uniformity. Spider-Man crosses over with Ghost Rider. Captain America coexists with Howard the Duck. They may attempt diversity but largely they have succeeded selling the same thing: their universe.

    Stepping away from Marvel and DC it's a whole different ball game. I liken it to book publishers. If you like Hellboy--you might seek out other Mignola-related books but there's no uniform anything else at Dark Horse. Image's line is so eclectic and so diverse that many books are one-of-a-kind items. Like Snot Girl? There it literally nothing else like it to be found at Image. Like Elephantmen? There's nothing else like it. Image may have done a decent job of saying "we put out a LOT of books and the commonality is that they all come from a creator's unique voice and they're all great" but I'm not convinced it's the label selling the books so much as it is the books selling the books and the creators selling the books.

    Fans bought the brand in 1992. I don't think it's necessarily that way anymore.
    You're most likely correct in all you're saying. Not gonna argue the point anymore.

    We got on this topic because dimo said Image wasn't healthy and some other poster disagreed. I'm pretty sure dimo meant to say, "compared to old Image, current Image is not healthy". On that, I don't know how someone can disagree with him. Maybe they misinterpreted him to say Image is not healthy at all. Since English isn't his first language, there's stuff lost in translation.

    When he cited TWD, he was saying Image should have several books competing with the Big 2 for the top 50 spot, like they did in the 90s. Instead, there's only TWD. If Image would lose TWD, then Image would have zero books in the Top 50. He was saying that's not good. I agree with that too.

    So what he was saying (and what I agreed with) that people in this thread have stated old Image is garbage and current Image is way better. However, in terms of brand loyalty and getting comics to compete with the Big 2 in the top 50 spot, current Image is definitely not better than old Image.

  7. #97
    Spectacular Member dimo1's Avatar
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    Thanks JFP, not sure why we go in circles here. Might be a problem of written communication.
    That‘s all I wanted to say.
    The entire industry is in decline, and given current sales numbers, being the third largest publisher doesn‘t count for much.

    Nobody can deny that Image back then killed it, compared to the furious hurricanes of the past what we have got today is a mild breeze.

    Yes, I‘m aware that this is true for comics in general, but this is an Image thread.

    And by the way, this is by no means meant to critisise the creative teams or the quality of their work, plus, it‘s entirely my assumption.
    Last edited by dimo1; 06-13-2018 at 01:08 PM.

  8. #98
    Fantastic Member BaneBreaker's Avatar
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    I think the breakdown comes from trying to reconcile two eras of comics and not factoring in how vastly different they were. I mean we're talking about something that happened 25 years ago and wondering why it isn't the same. The early 90s were so different compared to today. $10 could get you 5, 8, even 10 comics versus today when it gets you 2 or 3. They could also be purchased almost anywhere. Now, not so much. Its also a time of "hot, collectible comics", "must have" and "limited edition". Comics just moved. So its a bit unreasonable to say or expect Image properties today to sell in the millions of units like the Image properties of 1993.
    DC: Aquaman, Batman, 'Tec, Nightwing, Green Arrow, Green Lanterns, Harley Quinn, Wonder Woman, Batwoman, Supergirl, Superwoman

    Marvel: Ms. Marvel, Punisher, Daredevil

    Image: Outcast, Bitch Planet, The Autumnlands, Black Magick, The Goddamned

    Indies: Black, Insexts, Animosity, Alters, Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, Red Sonja

  9. #99
    Spectacular Member dimo1's Avatar
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    Sure it is unreasonable, to some extent.
    What happened, where is the dynamism, fun and joy of those times?
    Seriously, there are some issues I have problems with, but they aren‘t the answer to failing sales in general.
    My question for the last 25 years, after the big crash, has been why is our industry in a decline?
    We have such a diversity, and for a brief period Image was on top of their game again, TWD, Saga, Lazarus, top creators flocking to Image. Why has it failed?
    Yes, Erik argues differently, but seeing sales numbers of Savage Dragon 1 compared to the current issues just makes me sad.

    As such, old Image rules over new Image, except for that short glimpse when I thought they might have ignited that spark again, which sadly seems to have been sniffed out.

  10. #100
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimo1 View Post
    Sure it is unreasonable, to some extent.
    What happened, where is the dynamism, fun and joy of those times?
    Seriously, there are some issues I have problems with, but they aren‘t the answer to failing sales in general.
    My question for the last 25 years, after the big crash, has been why is our industry in a decline?

    We have such a diversity, and for a brief period Image was on top of their game again, TWD, Saga, Lazarus, top creators flocking to Image. Why has it failed?
    Yes, Erik argues differently, but seeing sales numbers of Savage Dragon 1 compared to the current issues just makes me sad.

    As such, old Image rules over new Image, except for that short glimpse when I thought they might have ignited that spark again, which sadly seems to have been sniffed out.
    Politely, you have to ignore that the world has changed in the time since then to seriously pose that question.

  11. #101
    Amazing Member Erik Larsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimo1 View Post
    Thanks JFP, not sure why we go in circles here. Might be a problem of written communication.
    That‘s all I wanted to say.
    The entire industry is in decline, and given current sales numbers, being the third largest publisher doesn‘t count for much.

    Nobody can deny that Image back then killed it, compared to the furious hurricanes of the past what we have got today is a mild breeze.

    Yes, I‘m aware that this is true for comics in general, but this is an Image thread.

    And by the way, this is by no means meant to critisise the creative teams or the quality of their work, plus, it‘s entirely my assumption.
    There's an ebb and flow. Books go up and down. The Walking Dead sells considerably better than it did when it launched--others are doing solid numbers--Savage Dragon is limping along. The new books seem to be thriving--books that were there at the start aren't doing as well. Their time has come and gone and modern readers are reading the modern books.

    Image is a very solid #3 publisher and it has been for most of the last 26 years. There was a time when we'd slipped a bit but at this point we have quite a few thriving, vital titles. It may not thrill you that those are the books people are enthusiastic about--but it's misleading to imply that the company is failing because your taste doesn't align with the tastes of other readers.

  12. #102
    Mighty Member Dark-Flux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimo1 View Post
    Sure it is unreasonable, to some extent.

    Seriously, there are some issues I have problems with, but they aren‘t the answer to failing sales in general.
    My question for the last 25 years, after the big crash, has been why is our industry in a decline?
    Its not.

    Not sure where this 'the industry is in decline' is coming from. Looking at Comichrons figures the overall industry revenue has been rising year by year since the crash. Sales on individual titles may be way lower than during the spectator boom, but theres also way more product. Plus the emergence of the bookstore and digital markets. The figures dropped over the last year or so in the direct market but the correlation is positive. Comics reached a billion in revenue back in 2016. Thats the highest since the market tanked back in the mid 90s.
    Last edited by Dark-Flux; 06-14-2018 at 04:12 AM.
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  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Larsen View Post
    There's an ebb and flow. Books go up and down. The Walking Dead sells considerably better than it did when it launched--others are doing solid numbers--Savage Dragon is limping along. The new books seem to be thriving--books that were there at the start aren't doing as well. Their time has come and gone and modern readers are reading the modern books.

    Image is a very solid #3 publisher and it has been for most of the last 26 years. There was a time when we'd slipped a bit but at this point we have quite a few thriving, vital titles. It may not thrill you that those are the books people are enthusiastic about--but it's misleading to imply that the company is failing because your taste doesn't align with the tastes of other readers.
    Just one fan's opinion, I don't think it's failing but I do feel like Image and most of the indie scene is stagnating. Possibly because there's too many comics out there and they all seem to blend together in the same category of 'different for the sake of being different'. So I guess my question is, what is Image doing to promote and cultivate new talent? And I mean truly new, kid with that golden idea, talent. I'm not talking about the same 15 - 20 creators who can bounce around to any publisher and get paid. And I'm not talking about the ones who try to contour their work to match what they think Image and others are looking for, because if you're doing that, then do you really have a 'unique' voice? I guess what I'm looking for is something new from a voice that I haven't heard before. Again, I'm just a fan on the outside of everything. I'm sure anyone can cite a bunch of examples from Image's line of comics from new creators that aren't formulaic or pandering to current trends. But the fact that a casual fan like me has to dig deep to find it is a problem.
    Save Ferris...

  14. #104
    Mighty Member Dark-Flux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryComicBookNerd View Post
    Just one fan's opinion, I don't think it's failing but I do feel like Image and most of the indie scene is stagnating. Possibly because there's too many comics out there and they all seem to blend together in the same category of 'different for the sake of being different'. So I guess my question is, what is Image doing to promote and cultivate new talent? And I mean truly new, kid with that golden idea, talent. I'm not talking about the same 15 - 20 creators who can bounce around to any publisher and get paid. And I'm not talking about the ones who try to contour their work to match what they think Image and others are looking for, because if you're doing that, then do you really have a 'unique' voice? I guess what I'm looking for is something new from a voice that I haven't heard before. Again, I'm just a fan on the outside of everything. I'm sure anyone can cite a bunch of examples from Image's line of comics from new creators that aren't formulaic or pandering to current trends. But the fact that a casual fan like me has to dig deep to find it is a problem.
    I dont think you have to dig deep. Just thumb through the Image section in Previews or look at the monthly solicits. You might not see them have top billing on the comic shelf but thats on retailers who dont order many of them precisely because these creators arnt as well known. But then, you could say the same for lower-tier books from every publisher in that regard. But yeah, i think if you take the time to look then many of those unique voice books are certainly at Image.
    Last edited by Dark-Flux; 06-14-2018 at 09:46 AM.
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  15. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Flux View Post
    I dont think you have to dig deep. Just thumb through the Image section in Previews or look at the monthly solicits. You might not see them have top billing on the comic shelf but thats on retailers who dont order many of them precisely because these creators arnt as well known. But then, you could say the same for lower-tier books from every publisher in that regard. But yeah, i think if you take the time to look then many of those unique voice books are certainly at Image.
    Well that's the thing though, why should I have to dig deep to find the new and upcoming talent? Shouldn't they be promoted more? Wasn't that one of Image's original missions, to give the indies a chance? I understand it's easier to sell a book from a know commodity than an unknown one. I'm not saying let's shelf TWD for some rando comic. I'm just saying, maybe I'd like Image to take a few chances on things outside the box. And I mean outside the box as it is drawn today. Make it easier for the casual or new fan to pick up a comic based on its actual content and not on the creator's prior accomplishments. I already paid 3.99 for that stuff. Tell me why I should pay 3.99 for this comic right here. Or maybe just put out an anthology or something. When was the last time Image had a breakthrough hit from an unknown creator?
    Save Ferris...

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