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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    Wasn't there a period when Peter and Callisto were on friendly terms when Peter came out of the Seige Perilous with amnesia?
    Callisto and Peter Nicholas were a couple.

    After Colossus's time with the Acolytes, he met up with her again, when Marrow was going to blow up bombs to try to get even for the Mutant Massacre. Peter gave her a big kiss at the end of the issue.

    Callisto was sort of a nemesis for Kitty, if only by trying to make her marry Caliban that one time, in return for the Morlock Healer saving Colossus after he was nearly killed by the Brotherhood.

  2. #152
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
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    I enjoyed seeing Claremont Kitty again, even if I'm not a fan of the nostalgic Kitty/Piotr pairing. I've missed her.

    I'm glad Claremont finally got to write a Kitty/Kurt moment, since he couldn't in the NC solo.

  3. #153
    Extraordinary Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxhilary View Post
    I guess that makes a sizable number of us in here stereotypes then. Like I could believe this line of criticism if he was sashaying around talking about his favorite pop queens and belting showtunes. But the level at which you're setting what constitutes stereotypical behavior is ridiculous IMO. The reality of it is that a LOT of gay or bi guys do talk and act that way, and for someone who's been in the closet for years like Bobby, experimenting with some of that and seeing if it suits him is something that has a lot of truth in real life. He said that line once while referencing that it would be a special occasion to say it, and you guys are acting like that defined his entire personality for the whole run.
    I dont know you. Im not calling you a stereotype. I do know what I read of Grace's Iceman and I stand by my feelings towards my dislike of it. Dont take that personally

  4. #154
    Mighty Member maxhilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I dont know you. Im not calling you a stereotype. I do know what I read of Grace's Iceman and I stand by my feelings towards my dislike of it. Dont take that personally
    I didn't take it personally, that's why I said "us" and not me, to illustrate that I'm talking about people. You can dislike the writing all you want, I'm just responding to the reasoning you gave. You didn't actually address anything I said after that.

  5. #155
    Astonishing Member WhiteQueenEmmaFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxhilary View Post
    I guess that makes a sizable number of us in here stereotypes then. Like I could believe this line of criticism if he was sashaying around talking about his favorite pop queens and belting showtunes. But the level at which you're setting what constitutes stereotypical behavior is ridiculous IMO. The reality of it is that a LOT of gay or bi guys do talk and act that way, and for someone who's been in the closet for years like Bobby, experimenting with some of that and seeing if it suits him is something that has a lot of truth in real life. He said that line once while referencing that it would be a special occasion to say it, and you guys are acting like that defined his entire personality for the whole run.
    you're jumping to conclusions in a thread that isn't even about the Iceman mini. Havok83 and I have only made comments that Gug's Iceman isn't much better than Grace's version for similar reasons namely that his personality didnt match his established character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I dont know you. Im not calling you a stereotype. I do know what I read of Grace's Iceman and I stand by my feelings towards my dislike of it. Dont take that personally
    Same.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxhilary View Post
    I didn't take it personally, that's why I said "us" and not me, to illustrate that I'm talking about people. You can dislike the writing all you want, I'm just responding to the reasoning you gave. You didn't actually address anything I said after that.
    You're overreacting there's a difference. One quote, one mention of something we disliked in the other book and you've pegged us both as stereotyping on the whole because we personally disliked Grace's work. You're basically taking two general comments and not only taking it personally, but also personally accusing both of us of stereotyping our own minority group for saying Iceman is being portrayed out of character.

    There are ways to balance who Iceman is and who is he as a gay man. Grace just took it waaay far into it being a gay man's story without it really being Bobby. Take out the very few instance of Iceman and it's a pretty generic profile of a gay man. It's a regular critique that Grace put a lot of himself into the character instead of trying to truly understand Iceman as his own person.

    The entire line of Resurrection books suffered from the same banal neo-nostalgic brevity and over inflated egos of their respective writers.

  6. #156

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    Grace and Iceman have very different personalities, interests, and perspectives so I dont know where that critique even comes from. It's clear from interviews that Iceman was not Grace's ideal character and had to get inside his head. I guess some people don't want gay men writing gay characters as if they are gay. Lucky for them straight writer Guggs wants Iceman to celebrate masculinity.

    Whenever Grace wrote Iceman saying something like yas qween it was always in the context of a bad Iceman joke, which is very in-character. If you actually read the book, you'd know Grace also focused on Iceman as a mentor, his nuanced relationships with his folks, the mentality that led to so much repression, commentaries on performativity and other great things.
    Last edited by Strong Girl Daken; 05-18-2018 at 12:46 PM.

  7. #157
    Mighty Member maxhilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteQueenEmmaFrost View Post
    you're jumping to conclusions in a thread that isn't even about the Iceman mini. Havok83 and I have only made comments that Gug's Iceman isn't much better than Grace's version for similar reasons namely that his personality didnt match his established character.

    You're overreacting there's a difference. One quote, one mention of something we disliked in the other book and you've pegged us both as stereotyping on the whole because we personally disliked Grace's work. You're basically taking two general comments and not only taking it personally, but also personally accusing both of us of stereotyping our own minority group for saying Iceman is being portrayed out of character.

    There are ways to balance who Iceman is and who is he as a gay man. Grace just took it waaay far into it being a gay man's story without it really being Bobby. Take out the very few instance of Iceman and it's a pretty generic profile of a gay man. It's a regular critique that Grace put a lot of himself into the character instead of trying to truly understand Iceman as his own person.

    The entire line of Resurrection books suffered from the same banal neo-nostalgic brevity and over inflated egos of their respective writers.
    I haven't jumped to any conclusions. Both of you talked about stereotypes and that's what I responded to. You're also assuming I'm basing this on just one comment, one quote as you said. I'm not. I'm basing it off of past discussions as well. All I said was that these accusations of Grace's Bobby being stereotypical come up without any actual elaboration on the matter besides that one line. I didn't accuse you of stereotyping anyone, if anything you're the one who's accusing Grace of stereotyping gay characters.

    If Grace was really writing himself as Bobby, the book would look VERY different. Judah would have been significantly more bear-like for one thing lol. Grace has said in multiple interviews that he took inspiration from other friends and people he knew of who had similar experiences of coming out late, because that wasn't his own experience. And these things have been brought up before too. These accusations of him putting himself into Bobby never really have examples either.

    A solo book about Iceman at this point in time was always going to focus on his sexuality. That's the entire reason he got the solo in the first place, because his story since Bendis was going unexplored, and Marvel approached Grace for a pitch specifically with Iceman in mind.

    I also don't see where I'm overreacting, besides the fact that this is indeed off-topic. But I'm not the only one who kept talking about it so I didn't see it as an issue. I'm ok with stopping this particular argument if it's derailing the thread.

  8. #158
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    Crap read. Please stop bringing back CC if he is just going to phone it in this way. Thompson story was the best, but not by much. Domino would've made more sense for the threat to Kitty. And at least Thompson respected the ambiguous sexuality of all x women with the club. Colossus needs some serious therapy. I am so not sold on this being a happy or healthy relationship

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Thompson View Post
    It's Stevie Hunter. Women change their hair sometimes, guys.
    .
    and their face shape....eyes, nose, lips lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegarogue View Post
    Maybe she did not want to leave her son?
    He's staying in a mutant roach motel...he'd be good for 1 night.

    Quote Originally Posted by jalsrix View Post
    I can't figure out who came for Kitty bach-lette party
    .
    Bad Writing..subpar art?

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by maxhilary View Post
    He said it ONE time and even said that if there was EVER a time to say it, it was then. Because some gay guys actually do say that sometimes, as you know.
    hell I definitely Camp it up more when I'm around fmr bro friends esp fraternity brothers..just so they don't forget lol

    Quote Originally Posted by comradepitrovsky View Post
    The real out-of-character moment was Remy LeBoyo not being one of the strippers.
    sooo true

    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    I’ve never seen a strip club with males and female performing at the same time.


    ?
    there's a few in Ga. Sounds pretty trashy IMHO but I've only been to like 3 dude strip clubs...bunch more chick ones *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteQueenEmmaFrost View Post
    "Yaaas Qween" is pretty much the direct opposite of "celebration of masculinity"
    lol not the way I do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by maxhilary View Post
    , and for someone who's been in the closet for years like Bobby, experimenting with some of that and seeing if it suits him is something that has a lot of truth in real life. He said that line once while .
    Ha Ha so true. Theres a Certain kinda relief that comes over you after you can let a lil "fairy' slip out.
    After being on guard for however long
    Last edited by BroHomo; 05-19-2018 at 11:57 PM.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxhilary View Post
    I guess that makes a sizable number of us in here stereotypes then. Like I could believe this line of criticism if he was sashaying around talking about his favorite pop queens and belting showtunes. But the level at which you're setting what constitutes stereotypical behavior is ridiculous IMO. The reality of it is that a LOT of gay or bi guys do talk and act that way, and for someone who's been in the closet for years like Bobby, experimenting with some of that and seeing if it suits him is something that has a lot of truth in real life. He said that line once while referencing that it would be a special occasion to say it, and you guys are acting like that defined his entire personality for the whole run.
    Just to chime in...I'm a gay man, and I'm kind of in agreement with the last poster you are responding to. I don't necessarily want to call Iceman "stereotypical" in this most recent run, but I honestly felt like i was reading the "super gay version" of iceman dialog, if that makes any sense. No he didn't sashay or do anything overtly "stereotypical" but when I read the dialog, I felt like I was hearing Grace's voice rather than Iceman's, which was very distracting (on the same level where Bendis writes his characters to all voice HIS tone, rather than the tone of the characters themselves). And most of the recent Iceman run was about the whole new gay, with snippets of comic adventure stuff. Yes, there were some layered parts to the story, but most of the 11 issues were pretty much about his new gay awakening, and nothing else about those 11 issues stands out to me as memorable. Which I guess is fine, it just felt pretty heavy handed, as every single issue hammered me over the head with it. And yes, a little cringe worthy. (And yes, I know lots of gay and bi guys talk this way, because I live the life, am in a gay relationship and work in Hollywood, and boy do I know that a lot of bi and gay guys speak this way, which in itself is trendy and played out). I guess it's to be expected though. I remember when I first came out, all I could do was bring attention to all my new gayness. Then I realized I was being obnoxious and overbearing about it, and eventually calmed down and remembered that my sexual preference never defined me so I didn't really have to try so hard. I'm all for iceman exploring his new identity, I just don't think Grace's approach was very organic for the character, and a bit tonally off.
    Last edited by Tunasammiches; 05-20-2018 at 06:22 PM.

  11. #161

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    I found Kitty and Colossus's stereotypical heterosexuality cringy in this wedding special. I feel like I'm reading the "straight" version of them in Gold.
    Last edited by Strong Girl Daken; 05-20-2018 at 06:20 PM.

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