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  1. #136
    Incredible Member Rise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Tim following the dynamic duo is mostly fan fic, that was never show like that in the comics, there you only see him shoot pictures of one fight between Batman and some villian ( and from what it looks like in broad Daylight) in the beginning of A Lonely Place of dying.

    And what people also keep to forget is, that story was written before the "Batman is just a Urban Myth" thing. In the 80s Batman was appearing openly in Public.
    So, your pretty much saying that Tynion's story is fan fic since it was heavily implied that he was following the dynamic duo because he had several impossible pics of them.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    So, your pretty much saying that Tynion's story is fan fic since it was heavily implied that he was following the dynamic duo because he had several impossible pics of them.
    Which story are to referring to?

    In Detective Comics #965 there are only the pictures from the fight in the original Story.

    My point is that, even if almost every Fan Fic writer treats it as canon, that Tim following the Dynamic Duo around for month by Night shooting photos, was as far as I can tell never shown or said anywhere in the comics.
    Unless Tynion did something that I over read, which would make it still just a recent retcon.


    Btw. even Tim being interested in photographie doesn't really have any basis in comics, Lonley place of Dying is afaik tell the only story where he used one

  3. #138
    Incredible Member Rise's Avatar
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    Tim was able to tell that Dick is Robin and this can't happen unless he has been stalking the due enough to recognize that he is the boy from the circus and was able to tell when a new Robin take over. Not mention that Tim figuring out that Batman = Bruce from just one pic seems more unbelievable and proving further EMarie's point.

    And why you are turning this into a discussion about Tim? What "fan fics writers" consider canon about Tim is completely irrelevant to the discussion here.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    Tim was able to tell that Dick is Robin and this can't happen unless he has been stalking
    In his original origin he recognized that Dick was Robin, when he saw footage in TV where Robin did a quadrupole somersault which he was able to do because he had Nightmares about the Death of Dicks parents for years.


    In the end the similarity between both (Jason stealing the tires and Tim figuring out the identity) is, that Batman was quite different at the time these stories were written, and it was in both cases back then easier to do than with the current version. The Batmobile was just a Sports Car with a few extras and Batman operated more public.

  5. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    It's not about having a different views, it's actually completely different story.

    Jason believing there's no good in his father and that he doesn't love him is a different point of view. Him telling a complete false story about how his parents met, the circumstance of his brith and where his father was caught is lying.

    Willis didn't suddnly become father of the year after this issue because he still failed in providing a safe environment for his son and securing his future. It's not like he pretended to be a good dad either and even admitted he made mistakes. The purpose of the letters was Willis wanting his son to not repeat his mistakes and for him to know that he loves him so I find it less likely that he is lying about the events in his letters.
    What you seem to willingly ignore or overloook is that is not that Jason is liying straight to the reader's face when narrating his story, is that for him that is what happened. The story ending with him "This is my story and I'm sticking to it" is meant to have him admiting there might've been things that doesn't fit logically or that might've been wrong but that those are things of no consequence for him.

    Willis on the other hand, does subtly changes the narrative as the letters progresses. In the first letter he outright admits he chose to be a dealer and how he got what he had coming. By the second the narrative changes so he was just a "victim of the circumstances" and pretty much shifts the blame for everything to external factors (it was Catherine the one who couldn't stop taking drugs, he doesn't say what he was doing before getting Catherine pregnant) by the third one is all about him and Jason spending time together and how Jason is the reason for everything he does...despite the first letter having him admit they didn't spend much time together. Do you now how the letters slowly manipulate the reader to paint Willis on an increasingly good light? That said, at this point Willis could've bought his own hype and truly believe what he was writing but I'm sure that will be adressed on future issues.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    In the end the similarity between both (Jason stealing the tires and Tim figuring out the identity) is, that Batman was quite different at the time these stories were written, and it was in both cases back then easier to do than with the current version. The Batmobile was just a Sports Car with a few extras and Batman operated more public.
    This is pretty much the reason for all the recent retcons, yeah. In the 80s-90s writers were able to write whatever they wanted without worrying about having to make it fit an ongoing narrative, but as the industry evolved, they suddenly had to consider a bunch of new factors that made impossible for those early stories to seamlessly fit on the current ongoing narrative.

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