View Poll Results: Who is to blame for Thanos's victory?

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  • Star-lord

    14 33.33%
  • Thor

    0 0%
  • Dr. Strange

    1 2.38%
  • Iron Man

    0 0%
  • Gamora

    1 2.38%
  • Cap and the others

    0 0%
  • Thanos

    17 40.48%
  • Everyone is to blame

    2 4.76%
  • No one

    7 16.67%
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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Cyke's Avatar
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    What Star-Lord did was passionate and stupid, but that's his character, too. And, really, from a narrative standpoint, it's refreshing to see heroes mess up and paying the consequences for it, because they're human (well, mortal) just like anyone else. It should be within their character, even if I don't like that character.

    Rather, let's stick to blaming Thanos, the instigator of it all.

    On a side, it always amuses me that for Thanos, the Mind Gem was the last stone to get, even though it was the first stone he had -- and he lent it to Loki to get the other gems, who then promptly lost the Mind Gem to begin with. So from the getgo, it kinda shows that he's not exactly the most rational guy in the universe.

  2. #17
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    What Star-Lord did was passionate and stupid, but that's his character, too. And, really, from a narrative standpoint, it's refreshing to see heroes mess up and paying the consequences for it, because they're human (well, mortal) just like anyone else. It should be within their character, even if I don't like that character.

    Rather, let's stick to blaming Thanos, the instigator of it all.

    On a side, it always amuses me that for Thanos, the Mind Gem was the last stone to get, even though it was the first stone he had -- and he lent it to Loki to get the other gems, who then promptly lost the Mind Gem to begin with. So from the getgo, it kinda shows that he's not exactly the most rational guy in the universe.
    Lol I think it was more Marvel making some of it up as they go then an intentional chink in Thanos Armor that he'd do soemthing so stupid. I mean Loki fails at everything almost

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    According to Dr. Strange, the way things played out were the only way it could have gone (presumably setting up their victory in Avengers 4).

    So maybe Starlord didn't doom the universe--he saved it!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Lol I think it was more Marvel making some of it up as they go then an intentional chink in Thanos Armor that he'd do soemthing so stupid. I mean Loki fails at everything almost
    All things considered, Loki's actually a great schemer. He got Thor exiled with barely any effort, turned the Avengers against themselves with little effort, and took over Asgard for years.

    As a recruit, it's no wonder Thanos reached out to him. The Asgardians seem to be the most aware of the power of the infinity stones, which is why Hulk ended up in the Sanctum

  5. #20
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    All things considered, Loki's actually a great schemer. He got Thor exiled with barely any effort, turned the Avengers against themselves with little effort, and took over Asgard for years.

    As a recruit, it's no wonder Thanos reached out to him. The Asgardians seem to be the most aware of the power of the infinity stones, which is why Hulk ended up in the Sanctum
    Short term goals maybe but long term nothing has worked out for him. He even became king of Asgard and did a horrible job at that.

    I think Hulk ended up in the Sanctum because of Heimdalls sight and knowledge. Though he didnt see Thanos coming so iono how his sight works in the films exactly.

  6. #21
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Why not Mantis, for drawing attention to the fact that Thanos killed Gamora?
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  7. #22
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    Tony "We'll Take The Time Gem Right To Thanos' Homeworld" Stark deserves more blame than Starlord, I'd say.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Short term goals maybe but long term nothing has worked out for him. He even became king of Asgard and did a horrible job at that.

    I think Hulk ended up in the Sanctum because of Heimdalls sight and knowledge. Though he didnt see Thanos coming so iono how his sight works in the films exactly.
    True, long term Loki leaves a lot to be desired. His neglect of the 9 realms allowed Thanos to have the gaunlet forged in the first place, IMO.

    But Thanos didn't need him long term. Like Ronan, he only needed a few things from him before they would part ways.

    Heimdell's watched the nine realms for hundreds of years. I'm sure he knew exactly what he was doing when he sent Hulk to the sanctum.

  9. #24
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    Tony and Steve are both at fault. The Civil War left the team divided and not ready for Thanos.
    -Tony didn't call Steve. If he had called Steve, Steve would have arrived in Scotland minutes earlier and could have prevented the stabbing of Vision. A fully-powered Vision would have been more helpful.
    -After saving Doctor Strange, Tony should have turned that ship around, gotten all of the Avengers together, and only then have gone to Titan. Going to Titan without the who team accomplished nothing.
    -Steve's strategy of destroying the Mind Stone was always doomed to fail, due to the existence of the Time Stone to bring it back.
    -Wanda's effort in destroying the Mind Stone was a waste of her powers. She should have instead protected Vision and used all of her power on holding Thanos off until Thor came and killed him with Storm Breaker. I also think that Wanda could have pulled the Infinity Gauntlet off of his hand.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    Tony and Steve are both at fault. The Civil War left the team divided and not ready for Thanos.
    There is every indication that the entire team could not have defeated Thanos. Had Civil War not happened, the team still would not have all been in the same place at the same time. Thor and Hulk, in particular, would still not have been in the fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    -Tony didn't call Steve. If he had called Steve, Steve would have arrived in Scotland minutes earlier and could have prevented the stabbing of Vision. A fully-powered Vision would have been more helpful.
    He was clearly going to call Steve and got interrupted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    -After saving Doctor Strange, Tony should have turned that ship around, gotten all of the Avengers together, and only then have gone to Titan. Going to Titan without the who team accomplished nothing.
    Tony's strategy came the closest to winning of all the strategies in the film.

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    -Steve's strategy of destroying the Mind Stone was always doomed to fail, due to the existence of the Time Stone to bring it back.
    He took the best shot he had at the time. There was no other strategy available.

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    -Wanda's effort in destroying the Mind Stone was a waste of her powers. She should have instead protected Vision and used all of her power on holding Thanos off until Thor came and killed him with Storm Breaker. I also think that Wanda could have pulled the Infinity Gauntlet off of his hand.
    She had no idea Thor was coming. There is no reason in the world to suppose that Wanda could have removed the gauntlet.
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    Tony and Steve are both at fault. The Civil War left the team divided and not ready for Thanos.
    This is all Monday morning quarterbacking, with a lot of these plans dependent on hindsight, as if the heroes were supposed to anticipate everything.

    -Tony didn't call Steve. If he had called Steve, Steve would have arrived in Scotland minutes earlier and could have prevented the stabbing of Vision. A fully-powered Vision would have been more helpful.
    Steve was still notified, though. And even then, Vision vs. two intergalactic warriors is bound to be not only fast but also all-over the place; which is exactly what we saw.

    In that way, it made sense that Falcon was the first to arrive on the scene. But that likely would've been the same way even with more advanced warning -- remember that Vision was essentially tossed several blocks away from the original starting point.

    -After saving Doctor Strange, Tony should have turned that ship around, gotten all of the Avengers together, and only then have gone to Titan. Going to Titan without the who team accomplished nothing.
    Tony had no real idea of the scale of the situation, even when fully briefed; he saw a situation, they were the closest to respond. And, given the time crunch, they had to move urgently.

    Seriously, what are Black Widow, Falcon, and Hawkeye going to do to the guy? Plus, Tony doesn't know the location of their heavy hitter Thor. There wasn't much to return to in the first place.

    -Steve's strategy of destroying the Mind Stone was always doomed to fail, due to the existence of the Time Stone to bring it back.
    Just how is Cap even supposed to know the existence, the location, and the possessor of the Time Stone to begin with? Just a couple days before, he was on the run in Europe. And there was certainly no way for him to know that the Time Stone and Thanos would even be on the same planet.

    -Wanda's effort in destroying the Mind Stone was a waste of her powers. She should have instead protected Vision and used all of her power on holding Thanos off until Thor came and killed him with Storm Breaker. I also think that Wanda could have pulled the Infinity Gauntlet off of his hand.
    Again, how is Wanda supposed to anticipate what Thor was doing, or know what Thanos could do?

    Sorry, but the MCU doesn't have clairvoyance or a time traveler from the future to tell them everything and every step that's coming their way, including their own.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Tony had no real idea of the scale of the situation, even when fully briefed; he saw a situation, they were the closest to respond. And, given the time crunch, they had to move urgently.

    Seriously, what are Black Widow, Falcon, and Hawkeye going to do to the guy? Plus, Tony doesn't know the location of their heavy hitter Thor. There wasn't much to return to in the first place. .
    There was plenty for Stark to return to.

    Not just Widow, Cap etc, but also Vision, War Machine, Panther, Ant-man, etc.

    On top of that, even if Stark didn't know their full numbers, he should know that Dr. Strange had people. And hell, on top of that, all of Stark's armors were at home. I'm sure those would have come in handy against Thanos.

    Earth had the greatest concentration of power to protect the gems, and that's where they should have made their stand.

    I understand why, as a directing point, Stark was sent into space. The CGI if he was on earth probably would have been the same as the GDP of a small nation. But IMO, they didn't sell it well

    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Tony's strategy came the closest to winning of all the strategies in the film.
    That was Starlord's plan

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I understand why, as a directing point, Stark was sent into space. The CGI if he was on earth probably would have been the same as the GDP of a small nation. But IMO, they didn't sell it well
    From a directing standpoint, the cost would be inconsequential. They did it from a story telling standpoint...so that the core Avengers would be separated. They sold it extremely well.

    People think CGI is this massive financial burden. It's nothing compared to the lead actors' salaries.
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    There was plenty for Stark to return to.

    Not just Widow, Cap etc, but also Vision, War Machine, Panther, Ant-man, etc.
    I'll grant Vision and *maybe* Ant-Man, but Tony's seen both Panther and War Machine in action, and they're not up to heavy hitter status. Indeed, remember that Tony dismissed Rhodey from the final battle in IM3.

    On top of that, even if Stark didn't know their full numbers, he should know that Dr. Strange had people. And hell, on top of that, all of Stark's armors were at home. I'm sure those would have come in handy against Thanos.
    They're likely not options in the same sense that that Power Rangers really should be calling upon their 20+ predecessor teams for every season finale but still don't. The battle in NYC was extensive, but neither Stark nor Strange called for back-up, even though we've seen Tony store super-fast suits in NYC and that Strange's people have no shortage of portals.

    For all intents and purposes, they probably wouldn't have done much other than just get in the way. And Tony as of late is really big on reducing the number of people it takes to do a superhero job.

    Earth had the greatest concentration of power to protect the gems, and that's where they should have made their stand.
    Not in the context of the MCU or as far as Tony knows. There are galactic powers out there and random superhuman-type threats that could and have given Thor and Hulk trouble, that no one else on Earth would know about. Nova Corps probably falls in line with that, and they went down off-screen. The Asgardians were swiftly defeated, too. Both of them make Earth -- even with all its super beings -- pale in comparison. Plus, for all of Earth's power, Earth didn't have the necessary knowledge to deal with Thanos, nor would they have the element of surprise, which is what Tony was banking on. As it is, though, Tony's group came the closest to completing their objective, whereas Cap and Panther shoring up as much strength on Earth as they could muster couldn't do much against Thanos.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    I'll grant Vision and *maybe* Ant-Man, but Tony's seen both Panther and War Machine in action, and they're not up to heavy hitter status. Indeed, remember that Tony dismissed Rhodey from the final battle in IM3.
    He dismissed Rhodes to get the President away, not because he didn't trust him in a figt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    They're likely not options in the same sense that that Power Rangers really should be calling upon their 20+ predecessor teams for every season finale but still don't. The battle in NYC was extensive, but neither Stark nor Strange called for back-up, even though we've seen Tony store super-fast suits in NYC and that Strange's people have no shortage of portals.
    Yeah, it' almost as if they were in the middle of a fight that lasted less than 10 minutes, and in which the bad guys didn't give them any breathing room.

    Strange and Wong went down too quickly to call for backup. If they had tme to prepare, things would have been different

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    For all intents and purposes, they probably wouldn't have done much other than just get in the way. And Tony as of late is really big on reducing the number of people it takes to do a superhero job.
    I'm sure all those armors would have been useful for drone attacks, if nothing else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Not in the context of the MCU or as far as Tony knows. There are galactic powers out there and random superhuman-type threats that could and have given Thor and Hulk trouble, that no one else on Earth would know about. Nova Corps probably falls in line with that, and they went down off-screen. The Asgardians were swiftly defeated, too. Both of them make Earth -- even with all its super beings -- pale in comparison. Plus, for all of Earth's power, Earth didn't have the necessary knowledge to deal with Thanos, nor would they have the element of surprise, which is what Tony was banking on. As it is, though, Tony's group came the closest to completing their objective, whereas Cap and Panther shoring up as much strength on Earth as they could muster couldn't do much against Thanos.
    Err, what?

    As far as Stark knew, he had no backup whatsoever. Thor was dead and he didn't even know who the Guardians were let alone the fact that they were inbound. Stark did good against Thanos in a fight, but it was sheer luck that they got that far

    Had the battle taken place on earth, Stark would have had all his allies, his armors and Dr. Strange's entire order, instead of just Strange, Spider-man and one new armor

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