View Poll Results: Do you think that what Jean Grey did in X-Men Red #5 was ethical?

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  • Yes

    86 71.67%
  • No

    34 28.33%
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  1. #16
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    I view Morrison’s characterization of Jean to be a huge mischaracterization and outlier given her history. Morrison mischaracterized a lot of characters in his X-Men run IMO.
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  2. #17
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Ultimately I guess I understand why you might pause and wonder if whether this was okay or not, the fact of the matter is that there was nothing wrong with what Jean did. Think of it almost like a debate: the whole point is to show the other person that there is another viable side to your argument and you are meant to do everything that you absolutely can to convince them, or the audience, of that fact. Jean did this in issue one of the book as well with Kurt. If you were a telepath and wanted to convince someone of an idea, wouldn't you show it to them without forcing it on them? These soldiers were not stripped of their free will or choice. They saw the other side, through the power of telepathy, and chose to stop their assault.

    Jean's approach since coming back and going forward is absolutely as non-violent as possible. Jean chose the most non-violent option.

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    I view Morrison’s characterization of Jean to be a huge mischaracterization and outlier given her history. Morrison mischaracterized a lot of characters in his X-Men run IMO.
    Whether you like it or not, Morrison recharacterized Jean beautifully. If you want to vent about it and how you'd do it differently there was a whole thread made today by my friend Gifted precisely about this subject.
    Last edited by Harpsikord; 06-12-2018 at 03:52 PM.

    "I've never felt the world so angry. So divided. I can hear you. I can hear your pain. Your fear. Your anxiety. I want to help. I don't know how, but I'll learn." - X-Men Red #1(2018)

  3. #18
    Spectacular Member Materiel's Avatar
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    In a vacuum I don't have any issue with what he did, but Jean doing it does make me lean back in my chair a blow out a breath. Jean is being portrayed as some manner of paragon and her actions, for me, don't sync with that. The invasion of the mind doesn't gel with the heroic ideal.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    I thought what Jean did was fine. She exposed the soldiers to what their actions were causing the mutants to go through, and then they decided to not go through with it. She didn't force anyone, and I would think the scene of the guy still trying to shoot Jean would have made that clear enough.

    I guess every telepath needs to stop and ask the person that's trying to kill them, if its okay if they do something that would prevent them from doing so.
    Last edited by Soulsword323; 06-12-2018 at 04:08 PM.

  5. #20

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    I guess it's understandable that people would have a problem with her forceably making people feel what others are feeling and sharing their experiences/memories without permission, but in this case I rather have people being forced to see the other side rather than people being forced to have their life taken from them.

  6. #21
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Whether you like it or not, Morrison recharacterized Jean beautifully. If you want to vent about it and how you'd do it differently there was a whole thread made today by my friend Gifted precisely about this subject.
    What’s beautiful about making her an intrusive, vindictive jerk?
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  7. #22
    Jubilant Member Dementia5's Avatar
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    Of all the morally questionable things that the X-men and their allies have ever done over the years, I honestly donít think that this even ranks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple of Redd View Post
    And to another point: they were brandishing guns in the first place just because some politician said to.
    Youíve literally just described an army.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    No-Justice-League-Detroit-You-Ain't-The-X-Men-No-Matter-How-Much-You-Break-Dance.

  8. #23
    Spectacular Member Materiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    I guess every telepath needs to stop and ask the person that's trying to kill them, if its okay if they do something that would prevent them from doing so.
    That particular situation was different though. Nobody is in any real danger of getting shot with Jean Grey and Storm present or at least they shouldn't be.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Materiel View Post
    That particular situation was different though. Nobody is in any real danger of getting shot with Jean Grey and Storm present or at least they shouldn't be.
    What Jean did was peaceful. No one got hurt through her methods. Is it better for them to beat the crap out of them in order to protect the mutants?

  10. #25

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    The issue was clearly going for a WW2 parallel if only the German Army had been able to early on see the actions of their government behind the lines through the lens of someone who experienced oppression. Though I am not sure the comparison is wholly apt.

    I will just say if one wants to make a non-territorial mutant nation that protects the rights of all mutants within their host countries Jean is going to have to make big ethical compromises to Xavier's professed core values to come. Was what Jean did a violation of Xavier's official stated ethics? Yes, but he would also do worse then that to get things done as he would violate his own stated values alot.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-12-2018 at 04:34 PM.

  11. #26
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    What’s beautiful about making her an intrusive, vindictive jerk?
    I literally just told you that there was a thread for this. I'm choosing not to have this conversation with you because I don't want you to derail the thread. Take it there.

    "I've never felt the world so angry. So divided. I can hear you. I can hear your pain. Your fear. Your anxiety. I want to help. I don't know how, but I'll learn." - X-Men Red #1(2018)

  12. #27
    Spectacular Member Materiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    What Jean did was peaceful. No one got hurt through her methods. Is it better for them to beat the crap out of them in order to protect the mutants?
    She stopped the bullets. Storm could blow them away. The sentinel blocked them. Storm could freeze and shatter the firing pins in every single rifle. Jean could crush them. She could make them see absolutely nothing while they walked away. They could allow them to fire every single bullet and make a boat out of 5.56x45mm and the shell casings. None of this involves implanting thoughts and feelings--which, again, I don't have an issue with outside of how Jean is being portrayed in Red.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by blanchett View Post
    It's been a talking point in other threads, very strong opinions either way.

    In this issue Jean merges the mind of the soldiers and the mutants. She said it was to make the soldiers unstand why what they were doing was wrong and to see the other side. However she doesn't request their consent.



    At least in the past Jean had an issue with this herself when she was a non psi.


    Was she in the right?
    So basically she did what Ghost Rider usually does or what Luna Maximoff developed into years ago.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Let's see:

    A) she made both sides feel what the other felt creating empathy in the soldiers being manipulated.

    B)She solved the problem without resorting to violence or worsening the situation by putting her friends at risk.

    C)No soldier or mutant died after her actions.

    D)Namor did not have to start a war for border invasion.


    If he had been in Jean's place would have done the same thing and would have no regrets. Maybe it was not ethical but when innocent lives are at stake ethics is not usually a priority. If she had exited and people had died they would probably be blaming her or she would be blaming herself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Materiel View Post
    She stopped the bullets. Storm could blow them away. The sentinel blocked them. Storm could freeze and shatter the firing pins in every single rifle. Jean could crush them. She could make them see absolutely nothing while they walked away. They could allow them to fire every single bullet and make a boat out of 5.56x45mm and the shell casings. None of this involves implanting thoughts and feelings--which, again, I don't have an issue with outside of how Jean is being portrayed in Red.
    True but that would only avoid the immediate problem at least now those soldiers know how their victims feel.Any mutant left behind would still be in danger, and now those soldiers learned to question orders and not to act like machines.
    Last edited by Knives; 06-12-2018 at 04:56 PM.

  15. #30
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blanchett View Post
    I am asking if she was right to use the method she did without their consent. I think for me, I don't think Jean needed to use that method which is at least morally grey. She could have just thrown up a forcefield. She's an omega level mutant not just for her telepathy but her telekinesis too. I think she had options.

    It's like what Xavier did with the Znox except I don't think he had other options whereas Jean actually did seem to have options.
    She showed the soldiers the other side. They made their own choice.

    In so doing, Jean took care of the root of the problem. Those soldiers will remember and not be so quick to blindly murder mutants.

    Throwing up a shield might have prevented those mutants from getting murdered, but it wouldnít prevent those soldiers from killing mutants in the future.

    Jeanís actions were the best solution for the situation.

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