View Poll Results: Do you think that what Jean Grey did in X-Men Red #5 was ethical?

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  • Yes

    86 71.67%
  • No

    34 28.33%
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  1. #31

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    How about the other teams.

    How would Kitty have handled the same situation that Red was in?

    How about Magneto and Polaris?

  2. #32
    Incredible Member Celestialbodies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Well, not all of that is fans fault as she preached hard to others against things like killing Cassandra Nova in the past which fits Jean as a character and her worldview of being Xavier's ultimate disciple.



    Talking about if Jean is living up to the moral standard she set for herself will be par for the course and actually good for Red.

    I think there's a difference between senseless killing, and stopping a bunch of soldiers from murdering fleeing mutants. Why Jean has to be held to a standard literally no other X-men is held to is mindblogging. She has morals and standards but that does not exclude her from using the tools that are readily available to her to end a conflict peacefully.


    More to point, X literally wiped all the X-men minds over in AXM without their consent and Betsy being fully aware, and we're talking about whether the means Jean used to stop murder was justified? And that's not even addressing all the dubious things X-characters have done with their power just from comics last week.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    I seem to think people would have less of an issue if Jean Grey pulled out a gun and shot those soldiers dead as I seem to recall both Cyclops and Captain America making those hard decisions and it being lost in a sea of decisions. Really this is small fish.

  4. #34
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    I seem to think people would have less of an issue if Jean Grey pulled out a gun and shot those soldiers dead as I seem to recall both Cyclops and Captain America making those hard decisions and it being lost in a sea of decisions. Really this is small fish.
    It's because she's a woman to be frank.

    Compare Iron Man to Captain Marvel.

    "I've never felt the world so angry. So divided. I can hear you. I can hear your pain. Your fear. Your anxiety. I want to help. I don't know how, but I'll learn." - X-Men Red #1(2018)

  5. #35
    Spectacular Member Materiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    It's because she's a woman to be frank.

    Compare Iron Man to Captain Marvel.
    Iron Man was reviled for awhile after Civil War.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    I think there's a difference between senseless killing, and stopping a bunch of soldiers from murdering fleeing mutants. Why Jean has to be held to a standard literally no other X-men is held to is mindblogging. She has moral standard that does not exclude her from using the tools that readily available to her to end a conflict peacefully.

    More to point, X literally wiped all the X-men minds over in AXM without their consent and Betsy being fully aware, and we're talking about whether the means Jean used to stop murder was justified? And that's not even addressing all the dubious things X-characters have done with their power just from comics last week.
    I was making the point that Jean will in time have to make ethical compromises if she is really going to create a mutant state inside all nations and it’s compromises to her own ethics and Xavier’s old stated ethics. That is just the nature of trying to change the world.

    If one agrees or not this was an ethical compromise is a separate point, I will just say I could see early 00s Jean doing something similar and no I don’t see it as a big deal, but there are those who I am certain do believe killing the soldiers would have been more honorable then messing with their minds.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    How about the other teams.

    How would Kitty have handled the same situation that Red was in?

    How about Magneto and Polaris?
    Storm and Rachel would be knocked out somehow and Kitty would somehow save them all .

    Magneto and Polaris would simply use their powers to neutralize the soldiers' weapons and vehicles. Magneto would probably say some threat to the soldiers.

    Astonishing: X(Xavier) or Psylocke would probably make the soldiers forget their orders or give happy thoughts to them .

  8. #38

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    Jean kept a bunch of innocent mutants alive. I don't give a damn about the how she did it. The ends justify the means
    "They NEED X-Men like me so they can go on their f*cking keyboards and make me bad guy... EMMA FROST"

  9. #39
    Incredible Member Celestialbodies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    I was making the point that Jean will in time have to make ethical compromises if she is really going to create a mutant state inside all nations and it’s compromises to her own ethics and Xavier’s old stated ethics. That is just the nature of trying to change the world.

    If one agrees or not this was an ethical compromise is a separate point, I will just say I could see early 00s Jean doing something similar and no I don’t see it as a big deal, but there are those who I am certain do believe killing the soldiers would have been more honorable then messing with their minds.
    I actually look forward to that, although I still stand by the idea that some readers believe Jean is some saint like figure she never was. She's killed before, I mean as just Jean Grey, she isn't the frail flower some believe her to be. And I also don't think she's someone unwilling to bend, change, or modify her plans based on the information she has available.

    It's going to be interesting to see how she gets to grow, and learn from this new landscape.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    How about the other teams.

    How would Kitty have handled the same situation that Red was in?

    How about Magneto and Polaris?
    These are great questions given the current books? I could surmise, Kitty would have saved everyone in Gold team be damned, and I wouldn't have been surprised if Mags slaughtered them, at least Lorna would have given them the option to flee....maybe.
    Last edited by Celestialbodies; 06-12-2018 at 05:37 PM.

  10. #40
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    I actually look forward to that, although I still stand by the idea that some readers believe Jean is some saint like figure she never was. She's killed before, I mean as just Jean Grey, she isn't the frail flower some believe her to be. And I also don't think she's someone unwilling to bend, change, or modify her plans based on the information she has available.

    It's going to be interesting to see how she gets to grow, and learn from this new landscape.
    To be fair, it WAS in self defense. Still - yeah. Psynapse got obliterated.

    "I've never felt the world so angry. So divided. I can hear you. I can hear your pain. Your fear. Your anxiety. I want to help. I don't know how, but I'll learn." - X-Men Red #1(2018)

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    So either the answer to the thread is Jean Grey is a hypocrite like every other mutant who has ever used their power. Or whatever Jean Grey did is somewhat infinitely worse then making a crowd orgasm which it's not, or taking control of the whole worlds minds without their permission to fight the znoxx. It really isn't. And I'm quite sure I've seen worse

  12. #42
    Incredible Member Celestialbodies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    To be fair, it WAS in self defense. Still - yeah. Psynapse got obliterated.
    I meant the time she killed Prism. (image wouldn't show up)


    But there was also, Meme she shut his poor mind down...
    Last edited by Celestialbodies; 06-12-2018 at 05:44 PM.

  13. #43
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    I meant this instance:




    But there was also, Meme she shut his poor mind down...
    Oh shoot, I forgot about her shattering Prism.

    "I've never felt the world so angry. So divided. I can hear you. I can hear your pain. Your fear. Your anxiety. I want to help. I don't know how, but I'll learn." - X-Men Red #1(2018)

  14. #44
    Fantastic Member Hellinoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    I view Morrison’s characterization of Jean to be a huge mischaracterization and outlier given her history. Morrison mischaracterized a lot of characters in his X-Men run IMO.
    Yes. IYO.

    I was a teenager when I read the Dark Phoenix Saga. I loved the character deeply. I was upset by the retcon, when she was brought back in Fantastic Four. The retcon felt horrible to me. Destructing the original character I loved so much.
    X-Factor's Jean was hit and miss. Mostly hit.
    90's Jean was one of the most boring Jean to read. She had some good moments, but she wasn't her true self imo. She was like an sweeten version.
    CC's Revolution Jean was surely the only good thing of his run. But Jean felt more like herself. Then Morrison's Jean was the best Jean I read for years.

    Taylor's Jean feel like a direct continuation of that (minus the Phoenix). I like Taylor's take very much.
    - I love Wolverine. Really.
    - Yeah ? Which one ?

  15. #45
    Incredible Member Celestialbodies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellinoze View Post
    Yes. IYO.

    I was a teenager when I read the Dark Phoenix Saga. I loved the character deeply. I was upset by the retcon, when she was brought back in Fantastic Four. The retcon felt horrible to me. Destructing the original character I loved so much.
    X-Factor's Jean was hit and miss. Mostly hit.
    90's Jean was one of the most boring Jean to read. She had some good moments, but she wasn't her true self imo. She was like an sweeten version.
    CC's Revolution Jean was surely the only good thing of his run. But Jean felt more like herself. Then Morrison's Jean was the best Jean I read for years.

    Taylor's Jean feel like a direct continuation of that (minus the Phoenix). I like Taylor's take very much.
    Couldn't said it better myself, Jean has not had her own voice in over a decade. What Taylor is doing is taking all the best parts of CC, Morrison, and pushing Jean is her natural direction. Obviously both in the comic and real life that makes some uncomfortable. Testament to Taylor's writing and keeps the discussion going.

    On a small sour note, with Jean also comes those who will pick apart every minute detail and word she makes.

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