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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    And now Affleck is out as Batman. I kind of wonder if Warners hasn't been looking for a way out of the DCEU. They've already got a stand alone Joker movie in the works that has no connection to the DCEU coming and one of the rumors I heard was that if WW had bombed, they were just gonna reboot anyway. One hit out of four movies so far isn't a good track record. In a way, WW put them in an odd bind. I kind of wonder if they might not be better off just junking the DCEU, making that the WW universe, and let other characters do their own thing in their own universes. Not sure if you could sell that idea, though.
    Well, WW effectively is in her own universe. The solo movies are, for the most part, prequels to the other DCEU films that function perfectly as standalones.

    I'm sure the same could hold true of Aquaman, potentially.

    MOS, BvS and Justice League are the movies which were part of the 'core' narrative of the DCEU - and even MOS was arguably a standalone origin story.

    So really, the moving parts of the DCEU are pretty separate - more so than the moving parts of the MCU. That makes them more easily replaceable if necessary.

  2. #32
    Fantastic Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    I've also gotten the impression that DC's approach to movies has been more or less intuitive, rather than based on market data. If so, that will probably change too. No more, "Hey, I bet a Shazam movie would be cool! Let's do it!" It would become more a matter of trying out the concepts on movie-goers first
    I think that assumes facts not in evidence, or at least constructing a narrative after the events played out.

    I really doubt that Marvel ran market data for their first movies (up to Avengers). What they have done is to reinforce success. Note also that they've not been afraid of dropping turds (Hulk) or changing direction for the movies (like after Thor: The Dark World).

    What DC did was make a plan, but they did not bother to adjust it.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Trey Strain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think that assumes facts not in evidence, or at least constructing a narrative after the events played out.

    I really doubt that Marvel ran market data for their first movies (up to Avengers). What they have done is to reinforce success. Note also that they've not been afraid of dropping turds (Hulk) or changing direction for the movies (like after Thor: The Dark World).

    What DC did was make a plan, but they did not bother to adjust it.
    Let me give you a couple of examples.

    -- Batman is pretty grimdark, and he's our main guy, so let's make a Batman and Superman movie grimdark.

    -- Oops, people didn't like that, so people must like hopefulness.

    I don't think either of those decisions was informed by actual market data. They look very intuitive to me.

    When you reinvent the wheel every time you do something, you're just guessing.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Actually, what I worry more about... with the end of net neutrality... is that my Netflix and/or Internet will be throttled unless I'm using apps belonging to or promoting WB.
    Currently reading: Legion of Super-Heroes ('80s), New Teen Titans ('80s)

  5. #35
    Fantastic Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    Let me give you a couple of examples.

    -- Batman is pretty grimdark, and he's our main guy, so let's make a Batman and Superman movie grimdark.

    -- Oops, people didn't like that, so people must like hopefulness.

    I don't think either of those decisions was informed by actual market data. They look very intuitive to me.

    When you reinvent the wheel every time you do something, you're just guessing.
    You're arguing against the opposite of what I implied: I don't think Marvel had any real market data guiding how they made their first movies. What they did was study the pitches, choosed the ones they liked, and reinforced success.

    I really think that's not so different from how DC approached things, except that the higher-ups failed to reinforce success and leave failure alone.

    [1] Though given that I equate grimdark with Warhammer 40K, this is low values of grimdark.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    One more reason why this likely won't have a big impact on DC comics publishing is that they are already a part of WB, which is a part of Time Warner. They already are a very small cog in a very big corporate machine. But the impact of the merger will certainly be felt much sooner on the Arrowverse and the movies, but even so I expect it to be indirect. More that the period of big uncertainty is over, and any new leadership can begin to assert itself on which projects to back and which directors and producers to sponsor.
    It was also announced in June 14, that AT&T renamed the Time Warner division as now officially WARNER MEDIA.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    [1] Though given that I equate grimdark with Warhammer 40K, this is low values of grimdark.
    There's nothing really grimdark about the DC movies. They're just not bright happy fun times.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  8. #38
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcfanpal View Post
    It was also announced in June 14, that AT&T renamed the Time Warner division as now officially WARNER MEDIA.
    To distinguish it from Time Warner Cable, apparently. Even though that changed it's name to Spectrum last year!

  9. #39
    Lv 67 Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    And now Affleck is out as Batman. I kind of wonder if Warners hasn't been looking for a way out of the DCEU. They've already got a stand alone Joker movie in the works that has no connection to the DCEU coming and one of the rumors I heard was that if WW had bombed, they were just gonna reboot anyway. One hit out of four movies so far isn't a good track record. In a way, WW put them in an odd bind. I kind of wonder if they might not be better off just junking the DCEU, making that the WW universe, and let other characters do their own thing in their own universes. Not sure if you could sell that idea, though.
    > If you believe the DCEU rumours, Ben Affleck already left before JL even debuted.
    > Yeah, WB is looking to get out of DCEU films...which is why they are currently filming two and have one coming out this year
    > "One out of four hit movies (1 of 5?)" This is actually pretty typical revisionism on the part of DCEU critics. MoS, BvS, SS, and WW all made money, with the later two being hits, not to mention if you compare MCU to DCEU films sequentially, the DCEU has outperformed the MCU significantly.
    Last edited by Pinsir; 06-18-2018 at 12:17 PM.
    Also visit my blog where I expose Wonder Woman for the criminal she is!

    How come these anonymous sources failed to report Zack Snyder had left post-production on Justice League? They seem to know everything now...

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    One thing that might change about the movies: The new people might recognize that DC is too far behind Marvel to ever catch up in the shared-universe game, and move instead to stand-alone movies. I think that would be a good idea.
    > Bill Gates, 1975, "Eh, IBM has been at this computer game longer than me, I should just go into accounting"
    > Cyrus the Great, 539 BCE, "Eh, the Babylonian Empire, be it Neo or not, is too ancient and austere for me to conquer, better go somewhere else."
    > Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, 1961, "Those DC wizards have been at this game for far too long, let's just contunue to print westerns and romance books."
    Also visit my blog where I expose Wonder Woman for the criminal she is!

    How come these anonymous sources failed to report Zack Snyder had left post-production on Justice League? They seem to know everything now...

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Trey Strain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    > Bill Gates, 1975, "Eh, IBM has been at this computer game longer than me, I should just go into accounting"
    > Cyrus the Great, 539 BCE, "Eh, the Babylonian Empire, be it Neo or not, is too ancient and austere for me to conquer, better go somewhere else."
    > Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, 1961, "Those DC wizards have been at this game for far too long, let's just contunue to print westerns and romance books."
    I'm sure it would be a lot of fun to spend a billion dollars or more of someone else's money to try to catch DC up with Marvel in the shared universe game. But at this late date, why would anyone who was producing brain waves agree to finance that experiment? What would be the point, and why would such a risk be acceptable?

    "Marvel is doing such-and-such, so we need to do that too!" But why?

    All DC needs to do is to make stand-alone movies! And if they can't do that, then they should get out of the movie business!

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    I'm sure it would be a lot of fun to spend a billion dollars or more of someone else's money to try to catch DC up with Marvel in the shared universe game. But why would anyone who was producing brain waves agree to finance that experiment? What would be the point, and why would such a risk be acceptable?

    "Marvel is doing such-and-such, so we need to do that too!" But why?

    All DC need to do is to make stand-alone movies! And if they can't make any of those that are any good, then they should get out of the movie business!
    What? These movies already made money. Why do critics of the DCEU constantly deny this?

    The 'why' is that there is a large group of people who like the style of DCEU films and wish to see more. That's it, I don't have to justify my personal preferences to you, no more than you have to me.
    Last edited by Pinsir; 06-18-2018 at 01:20 PM.
    Also visit my blog where I expose Wonder Woman for the criminal she is!

    How come these anonymous sources failed to report Zack Snyder had left post-production on Justice League? They seem to know everything now...

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member Trey Strain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    What? These movies already made money. Why do critics of the DCEU constantly deny this?

    The 'why' is that there is a large group of people who like the style of DCEU films and wish to see more. That's it, I don't have to justify my personal preferences to you, no more than you have to me.
    You didn't hear about Justice League?

    https://uproxx.com/hitfix/justice-le...x-office-bomb/

  14. #44
    Lv 67 Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    You didn't hear about Justice League?

    https://uproxx.com/hitfix/justice-le...x-office-bomb/
    Overemphasizing the failures of JL is another thing DCEU critiques love to do. So out of 5 films one broke even and didn't perform well. So, what? The other DCEU film did phenomenal that year.
    Also visit my blog where I expose Wonder Woman for the criminal she is!

    How come these anonymous sources failed to report Zack Snyder had left post-production on Justice League? They seem to know everything now...

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