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  1. #271
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    I'm fairly wary of this mini. It's really not all that much like how it was teased and announced as initially. The fact it needs some kind of murder to jumpstart it really makes it feel less like what it was announced as and instead as a similarly meh "Crisis" book.

  2. #272
    Psionic Superman stephens2177's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    It isn't like King's stuff is the only place these characters are appearing in.
    Actually some are,like Wally west.

    And this is a event story,so when characters get crapped on here,it runs down hill into everything else they are in.

    I've never said king isn't a good writer,it's that he takes characters that he didn't create and turns them into basket cases to push whatever agenda he is wanting to write about.

    If king creates a new character and then does this to them I won't care for a second,heck I might love it,just not with iconic superhero characters that are bigger than his PSAs
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  3. #273
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilBat66 View Post
    As someone that has "issues" that I deal with daily, this is the last thing I want to read about in the comics I buy to forget that shit.

    Hard Pass for me.
    There are two kinds of audiences for the arts generally: ones that, when they're sad, prefer happy art and ones that, when they're sad, prefer sad art.

    The reason for the first is to put sadness out of one's mind as you described. The second are the sort that feel less sad and less alone when experiencing art that reflects what they're going through.

    I'm the second sort which is why Samuel Beckett, Maria Irene Fornes, Sarah Kane, and Wally Shawn (all rather dark writers) speak to me more than any other playwrights. It's why Elliott Smith and Daniel Johnston speak to me more than any other songwriters. It's also why when I've had a bad breakup I'm inclined to listen to Dylan's Blood on the Tracks, the quintessential bad breakup album. And when I'm singing along with it I'm not Dylan and I'm not singing about his ex-wife Sara. I'm singing about me and the woman I lost.

    And that's always been so potent for me I've always been that way. Escapism holds no value to me because it doesn't work on me. I don't escape. In fact I'm unable to absorb escapist art when I'm troubled. When I am I can only appreciate art that reflects those feelings.

    One type of fan is not better or worse; we're just different.

  4. #274
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Ghost View Post
    Sigh. No. Soldiers are real people who suffer from real world problems. Superheroes are escapist fantasy. You can get PTSD from being raped, beaten up or any number of ways without being a soldier, cop, etc... So if DC wants to go down this road every time a hero has something bad to them it's off to therapy. Yeah that sounds like great comics right there. It breaks the universe and suspension of disbelief.
    You have a wrongheaded and dangerous view of mental health conditions and care. Everyone in the world would benefit from therapy. And superheroes are not always escapist fantasy. They were when they were only for kids but since they're being read more by adults lately they are less and less sunshiny and that's as it should be. And when there are real world consequences to the adventures we read about suspension of disbelief is much easier to attain because there's less to disbelieve. I'm pleased there aren't more troubling posts in this thread and yours wasn't so bad. At least it wasn't the one that said that if heroes need therapy they're not heroic. That was appalling.

  5. #275
    Mighty Member Jody Garland's Avatar
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    Even kids fiction would benefit from reminding you of mental fragility sometimes. There's something powerful about seeing a hero in therapy. It sends the message that it's OK to seek help, that it's OK to *get* help. Everybody's got baggage, after all.

  6. #276
    Psionic Superman stephens2177's Avatar
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    I'm a comic fan for fun, not because I need a outlet for my problems, which I've noticed many on here are here for.

    I'm sure you guys in the latter love this, while I just want to be entertained, and not get super heavy, that's what real life is for.
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  7. #277
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    Knowing something about the issues, I would think that in a real universe many of the heroes would have serious mental health consequences. The question is whether comic book fans want to read about them. Also, it would be very bad to have some baloney therapeutic approaches with Amazon and Kryptonian horsecrap magic cures. Or to overemphasize that the sufferer will go suicidal or homicidal. That would be a discredit to brave folks who suffer from such and reinforcement stereotypes about these issues in the public that reads the books.

  8. #278
    Psionic Superman stephens2177's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Smith View Post
    Knowing something about the issues, I would think that in a real universe many of the heroes would have serious mental health consequences. The question is whether comic book fans want to read about them. Also, it would be very bad to have some baloney therapeutic approaches with Amazon and Kryptonian horsecrap magic cures. Or to overemphasize that the sufferer will go suicidal or homicidal. That would be a discredit to brave folks who suffer from such and reinforcement stereotypes about these issues in the public that reads the books.

    Which is why they shouldn't be taken lightly as the backdrop to a superhero story
    #BRINGBACKKON

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  9. #279
    Incredible Member Kaijudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Smith View Post
    Knowing something about the issues, I would think that in a real universe many of the heroes would have serious mental health consequences. The question is whether comic book fans want to read about them. Also, it would be very bad to have some baloney therapeutic approaches with Amazon and Kryptonian horsecrap magic cures. Or to overemphasize that the sufferer will go suicidal or homicidal. That would be a discredit to brave folks who suffer from such and reinforcement stereotypes about these issues in the public that reads the books.
    Well, as Zatanna never healed Oracle's spine, I don't know if that'll be an issue or not. Personally, as someone who seems invested in PTSD, I doubt King would take an Amazonian Purple Ray way out of dealing with the issues.

  10. #280
    Mighty Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    I get that a lot of people only want "fun escapism" entertainment with their superheroes, but since this isn't that kind of book I have to ask...can't you just skip this then?

    I can totally see where that camp is coming from, and I sometimes even camp out there myself; but repeating multiple times how this is a "hard pass" or "white character driven dreck" is not going to make the book any different. You said it once, you don't want this (though most of you will read it anyway), we got it

    And before anyone starts in, I'm certainly not poo-pooing on anyone's negative discussion/reaction of the solicit/info that we have...just curious why some are arguing so much that the book shouldn't exist in the first place just because it doesn't conform to the box they think superheroes should be kept in. Again, repeating over and over that it shouldn't be done (this way, or at all) won't make the book go away.

    Anyway, just my 2 cents. If even just 1 person checks this out, sees the idea that their heroes also need help sometimes and decides to get help themselves, then this book will be absolutely worth existing.
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  11. #281
    Spectacular Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
    I get that a lot of people only want "fun escapism" entertainment with their superheroes, but since this isn't that kind of book I have to ask...can't you just skip this then?

    I can totally see where that camp is coming from, and I sometimes even camp out there myself; but repeating multiple times how this is a "hard pass" or "white character driven dreck" is not going to make the book any different. You said it once, you don't want this (though most of you will read it anyway), we got it

    And before anyone starts in, I'm certainly not poo-pooing on anyone's negative discussion/reaction of the solicit/info that we have...just curious why some are arguing so much that the book shouldn't exist in the first place just because it doesn't conform to the box they think superheroes should be kept in. Again, repeating over and over that it shouldn't be done (this way, or at all) won't make the book go away.

    Anyway, just my 2 cents. If even just 1 person checks this out, sees the idea that their heroes also need help sometimes and decides to get help themselves, then this book will be absolutely worth existing.
    I think the worry comes more from the ramifications of the book as opposed to it existing. While I don't think it's happening, let's say hypothetically Wally or Booster really does murder someone or multiple people in this. That's going to influence their stories for years to come and be a real departure from who they've been over the years. It will essentially taint everything people get to read about a favorite of theirs.

    That really sucks.

  12. #282
    THE RED HOOD JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I think the worry comes more from the ramifications of the book as opposed to it existing. While I don't think it's happening, let's say hypothetically Wally or Booster really does murder someone or multiple people in this. That's going to influence their stories for years to come and be a real departure from who they've been over the years. It will essentially taint everything people get to read about a favorite of theirs.

    That really sucks.
    Honestly since they've made it apparent that Wally, Booster and Harley are all suspects I think its pretty much a given that none of them are indeed the murderer here and that someone else is. A someone who is likely to be attempting to frame the aforementioned trio because it will keep the authorities distracted long enough for whomever did it to get away and possibly because the three of them have wronged the true culprit somehow. Seems to me that a lot of people are jumping to conclusions when we literally have very little to go on and when solicits are oftentimes very misleading.

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  13. #283
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    I'm a comic fan for fun, not because I need a outlet for my problems, which I've noticed many on here are here for.

    I'm sure you guys in the latter love this, while I just want to be entertained, and not get super heavy, that's what real life is for.
    You're referring to "entertainment." Comic books were once only intended for entertainment but that time's long past. Now comics are also often considered "art." That's not to say that something can't be art and entertainment but a comic book doesn't have to be both things anymore. We passed that point in the 1960s-70s.

    Movies are similar as is music as are all forms of art and/or entertainment. There's no guarantee, if you go to the movies or watch TV, that you won't encounter sad or heavy things. It's easily avoided though by checking out a trailer or something in advance to make sure you're only consuming "entertainment" and escapism if that's all you want to see. If you want to avoid heavy things in comics I'd start by avoiding anything called "Heroes in Crisis." Is it okay if the rest of us want to read it though?

  14. #284
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    And referring to identifying with comic books because they reflect one's experience of life as "an outlet for [some of our] problems" is pretty dismissive. What do you think people that go see plays and movies (I mean other than escapism) are doing? If someone relates to a movie and they rate that movie highly is it because it was "an outlet for their problems?" It's hard not to feel insulted by that. Art is a wonderful thing. That it often makes people feel their feelings and relate is a feature, not a bug.

    If what you want out of superhero comics is a bunch of guys in bright colors beating up on each other it seems like you might feel more at home as a wrestling fan.
    Last edited by BatmanJones; Today at 09:47 PM.

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