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  1. #16
    Fantastic Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha to Omega View Post
    - So after the preview, Juggernaut insults Thor some more before punching him off the cliff while Thor's internal monologue whines about him being the "worst Thor ever". Thor has Screwbeard (ugh) send him a hammer that he immediately breaks on Juggernaut's helmet. Then he has Screwbeard send all the hammers and uses them to electrocute the cultists and clobbers Juggernaut while yelling about being the "god of #%#%#%# thunder" (ugh) before quickly running away. Notably Aaron completely ignores the fact Cain killed Cyttorak and gained all his powers in Amazing X-Men, and reduces him to just being Cyttorak's avatar again. Also once again Aaron makes Thor useless without a hammer.

    - Thor returns the Warlock's Eye to Old Asgard and tells Screwbeard that all the hammers broke (which wasn't depicted clearly at all) and he needs more. Apparently Asgard is almost completely out of Uru and the Bifrost still isn't operational so they are cut off from the rest of the realms (if only Thor remembered the many teleporters he knows). Thor then talks to his dad, who has gone from a misogynistic strawman to a sadsack depressed about Freyja dumping him.

    - Thor goes to the Bronx where the rest of the refugees from Asgardia are living and talks to Jane, who is the one getting tips on Asgardian artifacts sightings for him, before going to see his mom. Freyja asks after Loki and tells Thor not to think too badly of him just because he literally stabbed her in the back (apparently everybody has forgotten about the whole murdering Kid Loki thing since it never comes up and they only ever talk about his crimes against Freyja). Thor gets pissed and goes to get the Gem of Infinite Suns from the Antarctic Sea and fights Namor for a page.

    - Thor now lives on a crappy little boat filled with weapons and old boxes of fried chicken in the Newark Harbor. He finds Loki drinking his last beer and they fight before Loki tells him he's there to help and that he can transport him to the other Realms for a price Loki will tell him later. Before Thor decides to agree or not, Loki starts transporting him anyway but Thor grabs Loki and drags him along. They end up in Hel where Balder and Skurge meet them.

    - The back-up story is Old King Thor fighting a Space Shark before going to visit Lady Jane of New Midgard as she dies and he tells her there is no afterlife anymore. Then he finds out the universe is dying and travels to the furthest corners of it before getting blasted by somebody. Who? Old Wolverine wielding the Phoenix Force, asking if he brought beer. (Because that's just what any Aaron story needs, more Wolverine wank.)

    This issue was filled with dumb, out-of-place humor, ignorance of continuity and just plain bad writing. And the art is terrible in my opinion.
    Thanks for the recap. I'll skip this and get my Thor fix in Avengers.

  2. #17
    Wily Veteran cc008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Thanks for the recap. I'll skip this and get my Thor fix in Avengers.
    Would that be any different by the same writer?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cc008 View Post
    Would that be any different by the same writer?
    Theres at least other things to distract you I suppose

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    He may not have directly referenced it, but he was mad at Loki before he ever did anything to Freyja, it was a clear continuation of the ending of Agent of Asgard. I mean of course he's going to mention what he did to her *while talking to Freyja* because it's something that directly affected her. It's also probably a case of referencing the thing most readers of the current book would be aware of, considering Agent of Asgard had a much lower readership than Thor did. But Aaron has definitely made references to the previous stuff, at times when it wasn't even strictly needed. Did Thor really NEED a talking dog sidekick? not really. But Thori was brought back because clearly Aaron liked that story. And it will probably become relevant later when Thor finds out that Thori betrayed Kid Loki and left him for dead. Is he going to be a hypocrite and forgive Thori but not Loki for basically the same thing, or forgive (or not) them both?
    Where exactly did Aaron have Thor angry at Loki before the Freyja stabbing (besides that offhand mention in Unworthy Thor #4 which happened post-stabbing)? Issue number? And it's not just him not mentioning Kid Loki when he talks to Freyja in this issue, it's the fact that he doesn't mention Kid Loki at all when he actually confronts Loki himself this issue. Even Loki himself seems to think Thor is just mad at him because of Freyja when he's trying to calm Thor down.

    As for Thori, IMO his presence is almost certainly due to Aaron wanting more shitty comic relief in his story and Thori checking all his boxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    the Odin and Freyja characterizations, I will grant you, (though, technically it was Ewing who was handling them out of character there. Aaron is in charge of the flagship book, he should be steering the ship there, like it or not) but Loki was consistent, as long as you picked up on the clues that he was playing bad guy rather than genuinely being evil again. And even with Freyja... I think he's just going with the idea that she reacts in an extreme way, and then cools down a bit later and forgives him. Lots of people act that way. I mean she was SUPER mad with him when he talked to her last, but now she's worried about him not long after. that just seems to be her thing with him. Which would actually make it consistent with how Agent of Asgard ended. What we saw in the early issues of Thor was her after she cooled down.
    Agent of Asgard ended with Loki becoming God of Stories, stating he was done choosing sides and telling Freyja no, then Aaron has him show up going right back to being spy for Asgard, working for Freyja again and seemingly no longer the God of Stories. Doesn't seem very consistent to me.

    And for your interpretation of how Aaron's portraying Freyja to work it would mean Aaron acknowledging she has flaws which I see no evidence of.

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Why exactly should Thor specifically be angry with Loki about his dealings with himself? That makes no sense.

  6. #21
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    I thought it was spectacular.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Why exactly should Thor specifically be angry with Loki about his dealings with himself? That makes no sense.
    I don't know JK, why should Thor be angry with a self-confessed child-killer who, while being magically incapable of lying, told him he killed his brother?

  8. #23
    Fantastic Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cc008 View Post
    Would that be any different by the same writer?
    The worse Aaron does in Avengers is make him act like Hercules. What is being described on this thread is just..ugh.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    So you are going to disregard anything that contradicts your idea that it's shitty by coming up with stupid reasons why it doesn't count. Got it. Complain that he's ignoring the Kid Loki stuff while Thori is RIGHT THERE, and has been for months now, and Aaron has referenced JIM, and even praised it on panel in the past, by saying, with no evidence whatsoever, that he included Thori for bad reasons. Even though he could have come up with his own 'comedy relief' character easily enough rather than bringing Thori in. Rather than acknowledge Freyja has some flaws in Aaron's depiction of her (something which is not new. People's perception of her in the story has been overtly good, but she did still display flaws before this) just flat out ignore it, handwave it away. Nope, just assume the worst to keep your narrative of everything Aaron does being somehow wrong going.

    I am not really sure why Thor would bring up Kid Loki right then? As I said before, is he really supposed to bring it up every time he sees him, even if it wouldn't make sense in context? Thor didn't mention Freyja at all until Loki did, either, up until that point it was just general anger. Probably because at this point he is mad at him about several things. Kid Loki's death, stabbing Freyja, apparently working with Malekith, he's got lots of reasons. He never mentioned anything specific, and the reader is free to assume what he's most mad about based on the previous stories, just because he mentions one of the reasons doesn't mean the others don't still count, he can be mad at him for several reasons. And that's fine, because the why wasn't important here. That we understand Thor is angry with him is all we need at this particular juncture, the death of Kid Loki had no direct relevance to that scene. It may become relevant later, but if it does, it will be brought up then.

    As for Loki walking away... and then not. Well, I am not sure what else you expected. His book was cancelled, were people really expecting he wouldn't show up in Thor? If he hadn't, it would have been a couple years before he showed up in Dr Strange and the Infinity stuff, so I don't have a problem with him being used in Thor, considering it kept him active. He's also clearly got some kind of scheme going, something very big, the details of which haven't been fully revealed. And for all we know him going back to Freyja was just part of that. He's been doing a lot of things in Thor and elsewhere that he clearly hated, but felt were necessary. Needs over wants. Maybe the whole secret agent thing falls under that umbrella as well. Even if not, I'm not too fussed about it, really. she made him a good offer, he cooled down and rethought things, I don't care much on this particular thing. And, actually, Aaron did reference the whole 'god of stories' thing. Twice that I can recall. Granted, one was a bit off hand, as he was talking to Laufey, which is also where he praised JIM, and the second time it was to kind of strip away the role to an extent, (something I was mad about, but have since calmed down about now that I've had time to think about it. still miffed that he got his win taken away, but I do think the 'god of stories' thing was potentially WAY too OP if it meant he could manipulate the story he's in, essentially becoming a powerful reality warper) but it was still referenced. Even if it was said his role hadn't changed as much as he thought it had.

    And I get Thor's anger over Kid Loki, but also feel it's pretty fucked up on another level, and one I think is going to be addressed. Thor told Loki that kid Loki was his 'real brother' the 'brother he deserved' which is a patently absurd notion. Sure, I can see him liking Kid Loki, I can see him thinking of him as the brother he WISHED he had growing up. But for better or worse, OG Loki is his 'real' brother, and he's got to just deal with that.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha to Omega View Post
    I don't know JK, why should Thor be angry with a self-confessed child-killer who, while being magically incapable of lying, told him he killed his brother?
    I wish I had never asked. Guess we don’t see eye to eye on anything. I certainly don’t recognise any of that as something I ever read.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I wish I had never asked. Guess we don’t see eye to eye on anything. I certainly don’t recognise any of that as something I ever read.
    Old Loki killed his reborn self. That was demonstrated in no uncertain terms. And old Loki had no right to kill him, anymore than peter Parker has the right to kill Ben Reily, even though they shared the same DNA and memories.

    Where is the confusion?

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    The worse Aaron does in Avengers is make him act like Hercules. What is being described on this thread is just..ugh.
    Much of what has been described in this thread is misrepresenting the comic IMO. YMMV but I would suggest at least catching up with the issue at some point. Even if you are not a fan, it is interesting and fun, with a lighter tone and an interesting status quo. The deeper ongoing themes of Aaron’s run are pushed to the background for now, except maybe in the King Thor story, in favour of telling a more dynamic story of realm jumping and a Loki/Thor dynamic that will potentially provide a more rounded characterisation of their relationship and build some bridges metaphorically and physically in the case of the Rainbow Bridge.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    So you are going to disregard anything that contradicts your idea that it's shitty by coming up with stupid reasons why it doesn't count. Got it. Complain that he's ignoring the Kid Loki stuff while Thori is RIGHT THERE, and has been for months now, and Aaron has referenced JIM, and even praised it on panel in the past, by saying, with no evidence whatsoever, that he included Thori for bad reasons. Even though he could have come up with his own 'comedy relief' character easily enough rather than bringing Thori in. Rather than acknowledge Freyja has some flaws in Aaron's depiction of her (something which is not new. People's perception of her in the story has been overtly good, but she did still display flaws before this) just flat out ignore it, handwave it away. Nope, just assume the worst to keep your narrative of everything Aaron does being somehow wrong going.
    I'm complaining that Aaron is ignoring Ewing's AoA and the things that happened there, not Gillen's JiM. Try to keep up.

    And what flaws has Freyja displayed under Aaron's pen? Also I'm still waiting for those times you claimed Aaron wrote Thor as angry at Loki post-AoA but prior to him stabbing Freyja.

    And it's pretty rich of you to complain about me disregarding and handwaving things away when so far in this thread you've handwaved multiple criticisms with "maybe it happened off-panel".

    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I am not really sure why Thor would bring up Kid Loki right then? As I said before, is he really supposed to bring it up every time he sees him, even if it wouldn't make sense in context? Thor didn't mention Freyja at all until Loki did, either, up until that point it was just general anger. Probably because at this point he is mad at him about several things. Kid Loki's death, stabbing Freyja, apparently working with Malekith, he's got lots of reasons. He never mentioned anything specific, and the reader is free to assume what he's most mad about based on the previous stories, just because he mentions one of the reasons doesn't mean the others don't still count, he can be mad at him for several reasons. And that's fine, because the why wasn't important here. That we understand Thor is angry with him is all we need at this particular juncture, the death of Kid Loki had no direct relevance to that scene. It may become relevant later, but if it does, it will be brought up then.
    Gee, I wonder why Thor would bring up Kid Loki when confronting his murderer especially since this is the first time they've met since. Or why he would have reason to bring it up when Freyja is telling him to forgive Loki.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    As for Loki walking away... and then not. Well, I am not sure what else you expected. His book was cancelled, were people really expecting he wouldn't show up in Thor? If he hadn't, it would have been a couple years before he showed up in Dr Strange and the Infinity stuff, so I don't have a problem with him being used in Thor, considering it kept him active. He's also clearly got some kind of scheme going, something very big, the details of which haven't been fully revealed. And for all we know him going back to Freyja was just part of that. He's been doing a lot of things in Thor and elsewhere that he clearly hated, but felt were necessary. Needs over wants. Maybe the whole secret agent thing falls under that umbrella as well. Even if not, I'm not too fussed about it, really. she made him a good offer, he cooled down and rethought things, I don't care much on this particular thing. And, actually, Aaron did reference the whole 'god of stories' thing. Twice that I can recall. Granted, one was a bit off hand, as he was talking to Laufey, which is also where he praised JIM, and the second time it was to kind of strip away the role to an extent, (something I was mad about, but have since calmed down about now that I've had time to think about it. still miffed that he got his win taken away, but I do think the 'god of stories' thing was potentially WAY too OP if it meant he could manipulate the story he's in, essentially becoming a powerful reality warper) but it was still referenced. Even if it was said his role hadn't changed as much as he thought it had.
    You're the one who claimed Aaron was being consistent with the ending of Agent of Asgard but I guess it suddenly doesn't matter because you personally "don't care too much" about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    And I get Thor's anger over Kid Loki, but also feel it's pretty fucked up on another level, and one I think is going to be addressed. Thor told Loki that kid Loki was his 'real brother' the 'brother he deserved' which is a patently absurd notion. Sure, I can see him liking Kid Loki, I can see him thinking of him as the brother he WISHED he had growing up. But for better or worse, OG Loki is his 'real' brother, and he's got to just deal with that.
    Or maybe Thor is allowed to disown said brother after finding out he killed a child and walked around in his skin for awhile.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Old Loki killed his reborn self. That was demonstrated in no uncertain terms. And old Loki had no right to kill him, anymore than peter Parker has the right to kill Ben Reily, even though they shared the same DNA and memories.

    Where is the confusion?
    That is a huge over-simplification and I am sure you recognise that. You are treating the divided character of Loki as separate characters just because they sometimes refer to each other as such.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    That is a huge over-simplification and I am sure you recognise that. You are treating the divided character of Loki as separate characters just because they sometimes refer to each other as such.
    Except others have referred and treated them as two different people. The destruction of the crown wouldn't have happened if Kid Loki hadn't died.

    More than that, in terms of personality, they were two very different people. Why then would they not be regarded as such?

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