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Thread: Will It Work?

  1. #16
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    What do you mean by wrongly?

    I mean the same goes for ANY book, doesn't it? Every new book or relaunch is a gamble to an extent. Some books have better chances than others, your Batman and Spider-Man, sure, but it's still always a roll of the dice, any book can fail.

    Books being cancelled or not depends on the money they bring in, from all sources, not on their Diamond ranking. Its foolish to close off revenue streams for a book, even if the revenue from one is a trickle, it still all adds up. It's just that the ones being brought back apparently got cancelled before Marvel realized they did well in trade, so they are bringing them back because of the trade sales. If it continues to do well in trade, or book fairs or whatever, they will earn their keep, even if they scrape the bottom of the Diamond charts.
    If they fail to do their marketing and research right then these books will fail yet again. Business can be a gamble but it also is about playing it smart.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  2. #17
    Incredible Member Skedatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    But the thing is during the start of Cebulski's tenure as editor in chief Unstoppable Wasp and Iceman got canned and then he decides to send them out again these had been doing well then why can them in the first place?



    I'm not even saying the direct market has that much power I only question how well it will really work when these two series got canned in the first place.
    We have to assume that things have changed when Marvel made their decision. I have to imagine it's not like Marvel said, "Well, what if we did the same exact thing in the same exact environment with the same exact trappings as the first time?"

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skedatz View Post
    We have to assume that things have changed when Marvel made their decision. I have to imagine it's not like Marvel said, "Well, what if we did the same exact thing in the same exact environment with the same exact trappings as the first time?"
    If Marvel is aiming at a hyper niche demographic then these will fail yet again.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    If they fail to do their marketing and research right then these books will fail yet again. Business can be a gamble but it also is about playing it smart.
    And I expect they are.

    And, really, what's it to you?

    Say the new volume of Wasp comes out and doesn't last for more than another arc...so what?

    Will its success or failure impact your own personal reading experiences in any way? I can't see how.

    As for worrying on Marvel's behalf...don't bother. They know what they're doing and, as with any title, are prepared to cope with whatever its performance may be.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    And I expect they are.

    And, really, what's it to you?

    Say the new volume of Wasp comes out and doesn't last for more than another arc...so what?

    Will its success or failure impact your own personal reading experiences in any way? I can't see how.

    As for worrying on Marvel's behalf...don't bother. They know what they're doing and, as with any title, are prepared to cope with whatever its performance may be.
    I only question how much sense it makes to to put out products that failed that's all.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  6. #21
    Incredible Member Skedatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    If Marvel is aiming at a hyper niche demographic then these will fail yet again.
    They would be by issuing it only to the DM.


    Think of it this way: When Marvel was releasing comics in around 2002, they were ONLY releasing to a hyper niche demographic because that's who were buying comics. They've begun to see an opening in other demographics and markets and have relaxed that hyper focus.

  7. #22
    Incredible Member Skedatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    I only question how much sense it makes to to put out products that failed that's all.
    For the same reason they've given relaunches to Darkhawk, or the Fantastic Four, or to X-Books, or to any title really: Because there are large indicators of demand for them.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    If they fail to do their marketing and research right then these books will fail yet again. Business can be a gamble but it also is about playing it smart.
    Their marketing research is that they did better than expected in trades. It is unfortunate they didn't learn that until the books had been cancelled, but that is the nature of trade sales, it happens sometimes. Now that they know these titles had most of their readership in trades, they can take some steps to ensure their trades are released more quickly, but beyond that there isn't really much they need to do. The books have an audience, just not the audience that goes to the comic shop every Wednesday. As long as Marvel is aware of that, it will be fine. I doubt they will go for hundreds of issues, but if Marvel can get another couple trades out of them, which they can sell for years to come, I am sure they will be happy with that.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    I only question how much sense it makes to to put out products that failed that's all.

    If they didn't try again we would not have hulk or X-Men who both bombed! Hulk only last 6 issues and X-Men went into reprints only before marvel tried again!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    If they didn't try again we would not have hulk or X-Men who both bombed! Hulk only last 6 issues and X-Men went into reprints only before marvel tried again!
    Yeah but here's the thing the X-Men and Hulk are well-established brands and safe enough to make a lot of money because people know them and will buy them. Humans just seem naturally inclined to the familiar than the unfamiliar sometimes anyway. Whereas Unstoppable Wasp and Iceman appear to be risks that didn't pay off well. And the fact Jean Grey, Logan, and Bruce Banner are back should help.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 06-14-2018 at 08:31 AM.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Yeah but here's the thing the X-Men and Hulk are well-established brands and safe enough to make a lot of money because people know them and will buy them. Humans just seem naturally inclined to the familiar than the unfamiliar sometimes anyway. Whereas Unstoppable Wasp and Iceman appear to be risks that didn't pay off well. And the fact Jean Grey and Bruce Banner are back should help.
    They weren't well established brands when they were given a second chance. I am not sure of the details with Hulk, but X-men was at that point in reprint territory, spiraling down the drain towards oblivion after having flopped pretty hard. It was given a second chance despite this, and went on to be a huge success.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    They weren't well established brands when they were given a second chance. I am not sure of the details with Hulk, but X-men was at that point in reprint territory, spiraling down the drain towards oblivion after having flopped pretty hard. It was given a second chance despite this, and went on to be a huge success.
    Yeah thanks to Chris Claremont and John Byrne's stellar work on it. And it was precisely that that helped the X-Men become names almost everyone even outside the comic book crowd knows. But what are Unstoppable Wasp and Iceman offering this time that will guarantee success?
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Wein and Cockrum. And it was not a sure bet that it would succeed at that point.

    Why are you having such a hard time grasping that they were (modest) successes? All that happened was that Marvel cancelled the books due to low sales in the direct market, as they frequently do, and put out a trade of the issues they had. Those trades, which came out after the book had already been cancelled, sold well enough to bump the book up from failure to success, and prompted them to give them a second chance. Just this time, they probably will pay more attention to book store sales (and maybe Scholastic for Wasp) than Diamond when determining if they should be cancelled again.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Wein and Cockrum. And it was not a sure bet that it would succeed at that point.

    Why are you having such a hard time grasping that they were (modest) successes? All that happened was that Marvel cancelled the books due to low sales in the direct market, as they frequently do, and put out a trade of the issues they had. Those trades, which came out after the book had already been cancelled, sold well enough to bump the book up from failure to success, and prompted them to give them a second chance. Just this time, they probably will pay more attention to book store sales (and maybe Scholastic for Wasp) than Diamond when determining if they should be cancelled again.
    Fine if they were modest successes then maybe they can find an audience well assuming that it does happen again.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  15. #30
    Incredible Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Why are you having such a hard time grasping that they were (modest) successes? All that happened was that Marvel cancelled the books due to low sales in the direct market, as they frequently do, and put out a trade of the issues they had. Those trades, which came out after the book had already been cancelled, sold well enough to bump the book up from failure to success, and prompted them to give them a second chance. Just this time, they probably will pay more attention to book store sales (and maybe Scholastic for Wasp) than Diamond when determining if they should be cancelled again.
    I very much doubt that a sustainable audience exists for either book. As so many companies have found out the hard way the likes of Tumblr and Twitter don't actually boost the sale of consumer goods and luxury items. The only part of social media that took any interest in Wasp and Iceman were the roast channels on Youtube. At least when those guys tore-up or burnt each issue you know they actually went out and bought a copy.

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