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  1. #46
    Mighty Member Waterfall's Avatar
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    Everyone seems to miss the part Wally telling Barry that "he might be faster than Barry but he will never outrace him". He knows his place in that sense. Just because Wally's well deserved position is confirmed again shouldn't make people upset. It's not like he's taking over the book lol. Both Wally and Barry are equally important the franchise and Williamson managed to honor them.

    Unlike Johns, who spat on everyone not named Barry :/

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I, unfortunately, have grown to hate Wally West's character, and not because of any stories I read. Wally fans and the anti-Barry venom of a few of them just made Wally toxic for me (which is really a shame, but they sucked any enjoyment I once had for the character). It may seem illogical that it's not stories with Wally that are causing me to feel this way, but it's just the internet strength of all those haters. .
    Barry has just as much as obnoxious fans but I'm mature enough to keep the character and his fans seperate.

  2. #47
    Not a member BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Well to be fair it was Barry who destroyed Wally's life in the first place. That is just a cold hard fact. Barry messed up the timestream by being selfish witch not only trapped Wally in limbo it also wiped out his kids and made his wife forget everything about their life. If anything Wally should hate Barry more than Zoom and Hunter combined since he did more to hurt him than they ever did.
    Nah.

    Yes, Barry made a mistake that had terrible consequences. Barry was also responsible for Wally having the best life he could have had. Yes, Wally should be angry at him - which is natural and human and we've seen this in this issue - but not hate him.
    Conner Kent flies. Connor Hawke has a bow. Get it right, people!

  3. #48
    Incredible Member Supermutant2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Nah.

    Yes, Barry made a mistake that had terrible consequences. Barry was also responsible for Wally having the best life he could have had. Yes, Wally should be angry at him - which is natural and human and we've seen this in this issue - but not hate him.
    Barry allen caused a drastic alteration of timeline/universe effecting 90% characters in DCU. Saying it had terrible consequences putting it lightly. That is no matter how dc tries to retcon it to be being Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen. I hate the man who caused me, my kids, my marriage from existing too.
    Last edited by Supermutant2099; 07-11-2018 at 12:37 PM.

  4. #49
    Not a member BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermutant2099 View Post
    Barry allen caused a drastic alteration of timeline/universe effecting 90% characters in DCU. Saying it had terrible consequences putting it lightly. That is no matter how dc tries to retcon it to be being Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen. I hate the man who caused me, my kids, my marriage from existing too.
    Sure he did, but from where Wally stands, you can't measure Barry only for that mistake.
    Conner Kent flies. Connor Hawke has a bow. Get it right, people!

  5. #50
    Not a member BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterfall View Post
    Barry has just as much as obnoxious fans but I'm mature enough to keep the character and his fans seperate.
    [off-topic]

    You know, I ended up here almost ten years ago coming from some places where Barry fans were some of the most dickish human beings I've seen. Some discussions I've been on would put the worst things here to shame.
    Conner Kent flies. Connor Hawke has a bow. Get it right, people!

  6. #51
    Incredible Member Supermutant2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Sure he did, but from where Wally stands, you can't measure Barry only for that mistake.
    I don't know how you can't. What for reverse flash killing barry's mom? I have (person in DC Universe whose fault it is) always and will always no matter how much retconing they try to do it. Barry was around long enough he knows the consequences of time travel.

  7. #52
    Incredible Member TheSupernaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermutant2099 View Post
    I don't know how you can't. What for reverse flash killing barry's mom? I have (person in DC Universe whose fault it is) always and will always no matter how much retconing they try to do it. Barry was around long enough he knows the consequences of time travel.
    This would be a valid point if the rules regarding time travel remained consistent, but they were changed to fit the story. I don't blame Barry for that.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Sure he did, but from where Wally stands, you can't measure Barry only for that mistake.
    Yeah you can when that "one" mistake destroyed your whole life. That is like saying you can not hate someone for killing your kids while driving drunk. Barry basically drove drunk in time and Wally's whole life was destroyed by it.

  9. #54
    Incredible Member Supermutant2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    This would be a valid point if the rules regarding time travel remained consistent, but they were changed to fit the story. I don't blame Barry for that.
    True but I always found it out the character that once knew no matter how long he stayed in future with Iris he knew he had to go back to his fate in Crisis. Accepted it instead of screwing up history did a 180 selfishly.

  10. #55
    Always Rakzo
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    Talking abut different points, I really don't think this is the same level of overglorification that Barry received from Johns during his Flash: Rebirth nor the kind that Wally received during Waid's run (if it was Wally would not only have been called "The Fastest Man Alive" but also "The Greatest Flash EVARZ!" and would have single-handedly saved the entire Multiverse).

    What happened here in fact was pretty on-point from a character and history level. Wally connected to the Speed Force in ways that Barry never could, that has always been part of his character and Williamson gave a decent explanation for it that is pretty appropriate for both. Besides, Hunter was the main antagonist of this story, it was just right for Wally to get the focus here, do you imagine if Barry would have been the one who stopped him? It not only would have been inadequate but would have also created an even greater fight between the fanbases.

    Finally, Barry doesn't really NEED to be "The Fastest Man Alive". Just like Jay Garrick, he works better as an inspiration, a role model that motivates others to be better (as demonstrated by his interaction with Wally in this same chapter). I always thought it would be cool if he was back and if he was given a more modern interpretation which is what Williamson is currently doing but he doesn't NEED to be the center of The Flash universe.

  11. #56

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    There's a difference between time traveling to the past for random adventures and going back to specifically change something. If you go back to specifically change something and you succeed then you never would have gone back, creating a paradox.

    Pretty sure Wally explains this to Hunter in the hospital so the rules were in effect at least in the post-crisis timeline (which Flashpoint Barry is from).

    Otherwise why wouldn't Wally go back in time to help Hunter? I guess he really was just being an awful friend in that case.

  12. #57
    Mighty Member Waterfall's Avatar
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    What people seem to not get is that Barry's action has never been portrayed as Barry "fixing what Eobard messed up". No, it was done out of Barry's selfish desire to see his mother again. This arc. hammered that aspect home again.

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    [off-topic]

    You know, I ended up here almost ten years ago coming from some places where Barry fans were some of the most dickish human beings I've seen. Some discussions I've been on would put the worst things here to shame.
    Same same. Especially before New 52, I couldn't stand most of Barry fans. Funny thing, most of them disappeared now.

  13. #58
    Mighty Member Waterfall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Talking abut different points, I really don't think this is the same level of overglorification that Barry received from Johns during his Flash: Rebirth nor the kind that Wally received during Waid's run (if it was Wally would not only have been called "The Fastest Man Alive" but also "The Greatest Flash EVARZ!" and would have single-handedly saved the entire Multiverse).

    What happened here in fact was pretty on-point from a character and history level. Wally connected to the Speed Force in ways that Barry never could, that has always been part of his character and Williamson gave a decent explanation for it that is pretty appropriate for both. Besides, Hunter was the main antagonist of this story, It was just right for Wally to get the focus here, do you imagine if Barry would have been the one who stopped him? It not only would have been inadequate but would have also created an even greater fight between the fanbases.

    Finally, Barry doesn't really NEED to be "The Fastest Man Alive". Just like Jay Garrick, he works better as an inspiration, a role model that motivates others to be better (as demonstrated by his interaction with Wally in this same chapter). I always thought it would be cool if he was back and if he was given a more modern interpretation which is what Williamson is currently doing but he doesn't NEED to be the center of The Flash universe.
    I agree with all of this, except for Waid part. Chain Lightning disproves your statement.

  14. #59
    Amazing Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    You know, I ended up here almost ten years ago coming from some places where Barry fans were some of the most dickish human beings I've seen.
    I don't doubt it. Unfortunately there's a segment of comic fans that have entitlement and self-esteem issues that spill over when they feel their favorite characters don't get their due. But it's no excuse now, is it? Certainly not for the childish behavior seen the last 10 years - 10 years! - on this site by the bitterest segment of Wally fans.

    If they were teenagers, few would notice or care. But these are obviously adults, in most cases.

  15. #60
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    There's so much Post-Johns to this run, Rebirthing things right back to the Road to Flashpoint topics, that I feel like it would be hard for "Crisis" to actually be the Anti-Monitor, who was just ultra-Johns utilized in Darkseid War, and whose use in that story directly precedes the entire DCU Rebirthing, and Wally returning. But it's certain that the 25th Century Prisoner is meant to EVOKE Anti-Monitor, or in particular the Crisis, and in particular, COIE itself, not the latter day Crises.

    I'm curious who that could turn out to be. Certainly the red eyes and brawny build are also meant to evoke those cosmic superpower types.

    While the "Warring" in Flash War fell a little flat - I mean it was just Barry and Wally having an argument then getting in a death-race against a fast foe, which is like ... EVERY Flash story ever - I can't knock Williamson for how he always ends these things with the right touch of "the family has a moment, we all breathe and look to the future and wonder how everyone is gonna get past the knocks in this arc, and then the last few pages give us some luxurious teases that bring back some Geoff Johns elements in a big way."

    Bart's back. Awesome. The Young Justicing continues! Hypertime and scads of just direct references to Wally (and Barry) knowing so much about their timelines sync up with Detective and Stephanie and Tim's glimpses at the Pre-Flashpoint skid-stop, so my god, you know, get those kids together to compare notes.

    CRISIS whatever wipes the Renegades from existence, has Kirby dots in his dialogue and quotes Marv Wolfman.
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