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  1. #16
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    I don't think that was the real J'onn. He was basically making the same argument Jor El did in Man of Steel. Not saying it was Jor El, but that it was related in some way.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I thought the same thing, that it wasn't really J'onn. I mean, who knows, maybe they were already in the Phantom Zone at that point and it was a manifestation of some kind. The visuals seem to indicate that the Earth moved into the Zone just at the end, but that's not necessarily true. That could just be the moment Superman realized it but it had happened before then. J'onn saying "take over", Clark basically saying "excuse me?" and then J'onn back-tracking was a huge red flag to me.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 07-11-2018 at 12:03 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  3. #18
    All-New Member Marvel Man's Avatar
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    Not bad at all, but there's something bugging me a little about the story and I cannot figure what yet...

    Anyway, I've missed the plot about the arsonist in this issue. spoilers:
    Last time we heard anything about it, there was a boy saying that Superman were provoking the fires. I don't know it someone has said it before but... anyone thinks the arsonist could be Bizarro?
    end of spoilers

  4. #19
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Pros:
    -The panels where Clark is all alone reflecting on past conversations with Lois and Jon were really hard-hitting
    -Loved Clark constantly getting interrupted in his conversation with J'onn by crimes happening all over
    -Loved the new Fortress, Barry and Hal felt way more in character here

    Cons:
    -I liked J'onn showing up to talk but him suggesting Clark take over the world feels horribly out of character, and I don't think Bendis is going to have that be a fakeout

    Won't lie, I'm nervous. This was solid but I'm anxious to see where Bendis goes with this.

  5. #20
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvel Man View Post
    Not bad at all, but there's something bugging me a little about the story and I cannot figure what yet...

    Anyway, I've missed the plot about the arsonist in this issue. spoilers:
    Last time we heard anything about it, there was a boy saying that Superman were provoking the fires. I don't know it someone has said it before but... anyone thinks the arsonist could be Bizarro?
    end of spoilers
    I think the arsonist plot will be handled in Action. Action seems to be the more "street-level" book focused on Metropolis.

  6. #21
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I thought the same thing, that it wasn't really J'onn. I mean, who knows, maybe they were already in the Phantom Zone at that point and it was a manifestation of some kind. The visuals seem to indicate that the Earth moved into the Zone just at the end, but that's not necessarily true. That could just be the moment Superman realized it but it had happened before then. J'onn saying "take over", Clark basically saying "excuse me?" and then J'onn back-tracking was a huge red flag to me.
    What if you take into account his new 52 stuff? That's how I can at it, and I expect Bendis may be doing something similar. The histories are mixed. Add that in with the fact that in Justice League the Source Wall is broken, the Totality has entered reality, an Omega titan is dead, and Earthlings just had a direct hand in reintroducing whole planets back into the universe.

    The galactic conversation is coming our way, for sure, and as Doomsday Clock illustrates, the only person every single person on Earth trusts is Superman. But, to be honest, even without the background I didn't get a bad vibe. But we'll see.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I didn't get a bad vibe. But we'll see.
    Because J'Onn isn't really out of character. This isn't really a "Superman King of the World" thing. They have already played that game before and, quite frankly, I think that Bendis is too clever a writer to fall into that trap again - even if, of course, there will be gray moral areas along the road (if there weren't, it wouldn't be worth reading). As far as I am concerned, J'Onn isn't really suggesting that Superman should become a leader of the world but rather a earth representative/ambassador on an intergalactic scale, with alien civilizations and new planets. And, at the same time, Superman is supposed to help the world open itself to new cultures and ways of life.

    If this is is the road to a "United Planets" situation, it's an interesting new role for Superman because - if you think about it - he's literally the only person who could assume this role in the entire DC Universe. And it would be coherent with concepts like the Green Lanterns, that is an intergalactic police who was never appointed by anyone on earth, but everybody seems to accept as a benevolent institution.

    By the way, the issue is perfect.
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  8. #23
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvenger View Post
    Bendis' characterisation of Hal, Barry and J'onn were awful which makes me dread the idea of a Bendis written Justice League. Jon's complaints about school were also heavily OOC as Jon has talked to the teachers, socialised well and studied after hours in both the Lois & Clark mini series and Super Sons. Not surprised Bendis continues to make the Super Family look awkward. Also, I'm surprised no one's complaining about Superman moping around in the early pages, when Post Crisis/Pre 52 Superman got criticised for being too mopey during the New Krypton/Grounded phase. Overall a pretty meh issue when it comes to Bendis' writing, though I expect The Unity Saga to get worse when he brings up Rogol Zaar again.
    Since the Jon moment was a small one, we don't see the whole context, so it didn't bug me. If they keep doing that, though, it might. I don't like a mopey Superman, but this didn't seem mopey. When it's time to "work," you see in his eyes that he's thinking about things, but he gets right to work. The scenes where he is thinking are silent (other than his thoughts), reflective, and quick - so they don't give the same vibe as the early 2000's. I thought they were beautiful, in fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    I don't think that was the real J'onn. He was basically making the same argument Jor El did in Man of Steel. Not saying it was Jor El, but that it was related in some way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    What if you take into account his new 52 stuff? That's how I can at it, and I expect Bendis may be doing something similar. The histories are mixed. Add that in with the fact that in Justice League the Source Wall is broken, the Totality has entered reality, an Omega titan is dead, and Earthlings just had a direct hand in reintroducing whole planets back into the universe.

    The galactic conversation is coming our way, for sure, and as Doomsday Clock illustrates, the only person every single person on Earth trusts is Superman. But, to be honest, even without the background I didn't get a bad vibe. But we'll see.
    Yeah, it's interesting.. for a bit there, I got a "something's up here" vibe, too. Mainly because Superman picked up on the exact same words I did from what J'onn was saying. (btw, I love the way his Superman is big on small details at times - that's the one personality trait I've got that I didn't really share with most writers' voices of the character, so the kid in me is getting a kick out of Superman having that now) The other vibe I got is that maybe something happened to J'onn before this and he's hurting and reacting (hence the reach-out to Clark) and Superman is distracted enough that he doesn't notice.
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  9. #24
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    LOL at seedy J'onn. I'll call him Jo'hn, no offense Miles. It'd be funny if this wasn't an imposter somehow. That would then make me read Superman's lines (internally and externally) as sarcastic ego stroking of a self conscious, mind reading clown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    The scenes where he is thinking are silent (other than his thoughts), reflective, and quick - so they don't give the same vibe as the early 2000's. I thought they were beautiful, in fact.
    I think this is one overlooked thing about Superman. For all people critique of his personality, so much of what we know comes from his private thoughts. To the outside he looks very stoic and as he says internally, like he knows what he's doing, even when something like thwarting the invasion was a chance brought by wandering aimlessly.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    If this is is the road to a "United Planets" situation, it's an interesting new role for Superman because - if you think about it - he's literally the only person who could assume this role in the entire DC Universe.
    Very much agreed. In Johns' Superman & The Legion (back in continuity, I'm sure) he makes it very clear that Superman takes a VERY direct and hands on role to forming the United Planets. He actively brokers peace treaties and such. I heard no backlash on this idea, but what I feel like people are overlooking is the actual logistics of HOW you get there. That expressly requires a Superman who is actively setting up, sitting in on, and giving input on meetings between Earth and other planets.

    It's so counter to what Superman has gone by till now, but it goes on to create a galactic shared community. This is the sort of conversation that had to have happened in some form to get Superman there, I feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Yeah, it's interesting.. for a bit there, I got a "something's up here" vibe, too. Mainly because Superman picked up on the exact same words I did from what J'onn was saying. (btw, I love the way his Superman is big on small details at times - that's the one personality trait I've got that I didn't really share with most writers' voices of the character, so the kid in me is getting a kick out of Superman having that now) The other vibe I got is that maybe something happened to J'onn before this and he's hurting and reacting (hence the reach-out to Clark) and Superman is distracted enough that he doesn't notice.
    My take away was that Clark has trigger words, like all of us, in conversations this delicate, and J'onn was way more blunt with his words than he maybe accounted for. J'onn said it himself, this was always going to be a hard sell. And I think J'onn is also coming at this from the objective perspective of an outsider, more so than Clark. But broaching that subject with Clark, someone who is very lined up with human thinking, and someone who is very self conscious about how strong he comes off is a hard dance. But I feel, considering Superman's status as both an alien and most beloved citizen of Earth, J'onn had to try, ya know?

    I actually think everyone's reaction of being taken back, suspicious, and dismissive of the idea like Clark is the point. I was right there with you when I read "takeover." And that's awesome because that means we're, as readers, directly identifying with Superman, right?
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  11. #26
    Fantastic 4ever Kirby Krackle's Avatar
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    Btw, did anyone catch the closet changing scene? That kid/intern walked by and rolled his eyes like "here we go again." Do he know Clark is Superman?
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  12. #27
    Incredible Member Godzilla2099's Avatar
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    I really liked the issue. My favorite part was when Superman stopped the Dominator Invasion. He saw them coming from 746 million miles away!

    Batman may use fear as a weapon, but that scene where the Dominators watching Superman fly towards them. Talk about the bad guys getting screwed! It brought a big fan-boy grin to my face

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby Krackle View Post
    Btw, did anyone catch the closet changing scene? That kid/intern walked by and rolled his eyes like "here we go again." Do he know Clark is Superman?
    I didn't quite get that scene either. I don't think that kid knew Clark's Secret. I just took it as 'whatever'

  13. #28
    Incredible Member nightw1ng's Avatar
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    I liked it except for the conversation with J'onn. People thinking that wasn't really him should realize Bendis is known for changing characters to fit his stories, and his J'onn felt really off. Having J'onn say what the people of Earth have built is "garbage" was a total WTF moment.

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    The only reason I'm suspicious is the Phantom Zone angle. But, with that said, oftentimes when I'm looking for a twist like this it doesn't come to pass, regardless of the writer. So after some consideration, while I've still got it in the back of my head I'm not as high on it anymore.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  15. #30
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    The new fortress is absolutely badass. That's the sort of thing I love seeing in this slowly changing status quo.

    I also loved superman taking out all sorts of bizarre and harrowing threats while speaking to j'onn.

    I don't agree with j'onn that human society is garbage. In fact, things are becoming exponentially better for people worldwide in recent history (and are far better than they've been at any point in history.) His claim that 'borders, money, and war' make our society garbage also isn't true, but it doesn't bother me much when I consider that this is a universe with a vast array of different alien planets and societies known to humans-- and in that context humans may indeed seem behind the curve.

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