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  1. #61
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    I think this is one overlooked thing about Superman. For all people critique of his personality, so much of what we know comes from his private thoughts. To the outside he looks very stoic and as he says internally, like he knows what he's doing, even when something like thwarting the invasion was a chance brought by wandering aimlessly.
    Definitely. I just love the presentation of it here. Few words are given, but few are needed. The visuals tell the story very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Very much agreed. In Johns' Superman & The Legion (back in continuity, I'm sure) he makes it very clear that Superman takes a VERY direct and hands on role to forming the United Planets. He actively brokers peace treaties and such. I heard no backlash on this idea, but what I feel like people are overlooking is the actual logistics of HOW you get there. That expressly requires a Superman who is actively setting up, sitting in on, and giving input on meetings between Earth and other planets.

    It's so counter to what Superman has gone by till now, but it goes on to create a galactic shared community. This is the sort of conversation that had to have happened in some form to get Superman there, I feel.
    I love the idea of even starting to bring this concept in. Hopefully that's the idea - it's a bit too "King Of The World, Part 2" potentially, otherwise.. but I don't see them going near that.

    My take away was that Clark has trigger words, like all of us, in conversations this delicate, and J'onn was way more blunt with his words than he maybe accounted for. J'onn said it himself, this was always going to be a hard sell. And I think J'onn is also coming at this from the objective perspective of an outsider, more so than Clark. But broaching that subject with Clark, someone who is very lined up with human thinking, and someone who is very self conscious about how strong he comes off is a hard dance. But I feel, considering Superman's status as both an alien and most beloved citizen of Earth, J'onn had to try, ya know?
    True, but there've been other moments with Bendis's Clark that give it a bit of a broader feel than that, personality-wise. But that's definitely part of it.

    I actually think everyone's reaction of being taken back, suspicious, and dismissive of the idea like Clark is the point. I was right there with you when I read "takeover." And that's awesome because that means we're, as readers, directly identifying with Superman, right?
    A VERY good point, and absolutely right. It's exactly the kind of writing I want to see. Maybe we can get Bendis to write the next movie, lol...

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Not to put too much of a pin in it, and this isn't a direct reply to anyone, but I'd like to post a quick conversation between The Legion and Superman in Johns' Superman & The Legion of Superheroes. Action Comics vol 1 issue #859

    Wildfire: So the vote was unanimous. No matter what happened, we couldn't bring you back here--'cause everyone knows you're the most important figure in intergalactic history.

    Superman: Maybe I helped inspire the Legion, but beyond that--

    Dawnstar: The United Planets grew out of the peace treaties you helped negotiate when Earth was made up of thousands of individual governments

    That's verbatim from the issue. Dawnstar is literally talking about the 21st century. And we've seen that Bendis has been going through all of DC's history. It seems like he read that exchange and thought "why hasn't any writer ever picked up this thread?" And I have to agree. It's literally right there.
    That's just awesome. I definitely hope this turns out!

    Quote Originally Posted by RepHope View Post
    Bit off-topic but would you guys say Metropolis should be a “utopia”? I’d say no because it’s still a place that was under Lex Luthor’s thumb not too long ago. Not sure how many of you guys have played Mass Effect but if Omega is Gotham I always felt like Illium would be Metropolis.
    I haven't played the "Mass Effect" games, but no - it's more like one than Gotham, but it still has it's seedier elements.. they just show up differently and are more underground.

    Quote Originally Posted by gnarlybole View Post
    So even though Superman has no idea where Jor-El has taken Lois and Jon, he sets off to find them. Is Kal really that dumb? Wouldn't he ask someone like the GLC to help him track them rather than aimlessly flying through space in the hope of bumping into them? To quote Douglas Adams: "Space is big. Really big". Which brings up another point: How long can Superman hold his breath? He used to have to wear breathing apparatus for long journeys into space. Is Bendis now saying that Supes can survive without oxygen for extended periods of time? Also, Superman just KILLED a large number of Dominators on the assumption that they were heading to Earth on a mission of conquest. Since when did Kal become a cold-blooded killer? Another out-of-character moment from Bendis.
    I liked it - I know that if my wife was missing, I'd have the world out looking but still start with areas that I think might be where she is (if I had any idea at all). It doesn't say for sure, so I just thought he was looking in "educated ballpark" areas that he thinks might be possible and just mentally knocking himself since he's making no progress. As for the Dominators, I didn't take them as dead - it's old school, but the mention of Dominators wondering "for years" why their invasion failed, and I took that to mean they escaped to tell the tale. But I can see how one could read it differently.
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  2. #62
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnarlybole View Post
    So even though Superman has no idea where Jor-El has taken Lois and Jon, he sets off to find them. Is Kal really that dumb? Wouldn't he ask someone like the GLC to help him track them rather than aimlessly flying through space in the hope of bumping into them? To quote Douglas Adams: "Space is big. Really big". Which brings up another point: How long can Superman hold his breath? He used to have to wear breathing apparatus for long journeys into space. Is Bendis now saying that Supes can survive without oxygen for extended periods of time? Also, Superman just KILLED a large number of Dominators on the assumption that they were heading to Earth on a mission of conquest. Since when did Kal become a cold-blooded killer? Another out-of-character moment from Bendis.
    He only really used a breathing apparatus as back up (like how Kara's new costume is being described) and it actually worked against him way back in 1989, so he has only used it once or twice since.

    The whole "searching for lost family" thing I guess we can sum up as bringing him down to Earth and making him a sympathetic, if mopey, character. I can see why it seems like a grating twist. Searching around like a lovable goofball gets us to relate to him, though, and since he can determine a voyage path 746 millions miles out and has super speed, I don't think it's all that foolish for him to keep trying.

  3. #63
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I think this version of Superman is going to have all the tools in the tool-box when it comes to power. The art reminds me of the 70's and that scene with the Dominators looks like it was taken straight from the Muhammad Ali team up. It feels like a Bronze Age Superman but I have been saying that since Jurgens came back. I even thought the paper choice might have been a throw back like the old logo/new logo change. I think re-reading the Miracle Man series by Alan Moore and watching Man of Steel can help as touchstones for Bendis's version of Superman. The choice J'onn presents, his son leaving him to explore the cosmos, it reminds me of Miracle Man and Alan Moore. I like the scope of this Superman. He is big and out there but the concerns and the humanity is still up front. I need to re-read Man of Steel, but this issue is more fun for me right away. It reminds me of when John's took over the Flash or GL too but I think that is because of the art.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    I cannot believe it is Bendis of all people who's gotten us back to the point of Superman being a guy who can casually fly around the galaxy, keeps a gateway to "Dimension M" in his basement, and fights astro-gorillas on the moon.

    Anyone else bugged by the new paper stock though? The texture I suppose I can get used to - at least it feels tougher - but unlike how it benefited the noir look of Catwoman #1, I feel like Alex Sinclair's colors here ended up sort of subdued compared to their sheen in MOS #1 with the glossy pages; I suspect there'll be an adjustment period for DC's colorists in general adapting to this new status quo. It just bugs me that Superman's shiny, slick new #1 is physically less shiny and slick than what was just coming out.
    Agreed about the paper.

    I got a very Neal Adams feel on the action scenes, and a Gary Frank feel on the quiet moments.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    If Earth was in the PS wouldn’t it all be phantom zoney?

    End everyone and everything would be “see through “ ...?.??

  6. #66
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnarlybole View Post
    So even though Superman has no idea where Jor-El has taken Lois and Jon, he sets off to find them. Is Kal really that dumb? Wouldn't he ask someone like the GLC to help him track them rather than aimlessly flying through space in the hope of bumping into them? To quote Douglas Adams: "Space is big. Really big". Which brings up another point: How long can Superman hold his breath? He used to have to wear breathing apparatus for long journeys into space. Is Bendis now saying that Supes can survive without oxygen for extended periods of time? Also, Superman just KILLED a large number of Dominators on the assumption that they were heading to Earth on a mission of conquest. Since when did Kal become a cold-blooded killer? Another out-of-character moment from Bendis.
    They're all seen in space suits floating around, he killed none of them.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  7. #67
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees the tilt towards the Bronze Age in scope and overall feel. I got that vibe from Bendis' DC Nation story, but at the time I thought it was because of Jose Luis Garcia Lopez' art, but that tilt towards bronze age characterization, scope and just overall tone has so far carried over through MOS into this issue.

    While Bendis definitely does factor in the recent run by Tomasi and Jurgens, it seems like in his mind, there is a hard lean towards the seventies and early 80s as the frame of reference from how Bendis is approaching this. The Kandor he referenced in MOS definitely owes more to the pre 1986 Kandor than any of the versions after ( although he did toss in a few easter eggs referencing those other versions.) His characterization of Daily Planet Clark Kent is very much owing more towards bronze age Clark and less the more recent versions. His power levels seem very much Bronze age. The way he writes Kara and Clark's relationship. So on and so forth.

    Much in the same way Tomasi's run often times felt like a spiritual successor to the Jeph Loeb/ Joe Kelly era and Jurgens was a spiritual successor to his own 90s era. Bendis probably was a regular Superman reader in the Bronze Age and that is where he seems to gravitate towards as his personal starting point.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 07-12-2018 at 08:19 AM.
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  8. #68
    Spectacular Member jyamen's Avatar
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    Very enjoyable first issue. I like that he's honoring the "crystal" part of kryptonian technology. The dialogue didn't try to be overly bendisesque, and the interchange between J'onn and Kal was nicely done. Looking forward to more

  9. #69
    Incredible Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Why was that convo between Supes and Jonn so weird?
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  10. #70
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees the tilt towards the Bronze Age in scope and overall feel. I got that vibe from Bendis' DC Nation story, but at the time I thought it was because of Jose Luis Garcia Lopez' art, but that tilt towards bronze age characterization, scope and just overall tone has so far carried over through MOS into this issue.

    While Bendis definitely does factor in the recent run by Tomasi and Jurgens, it seems like in his mind, there is a hard lean towards the seventies and early 80s as the frame of reference from how Bendis is approaching this. The Kandor he referenced in MOS definitely owes more to the pre 1986 Kandor than any of the versions after ( although he did toss in a few easter eggs referencing those other versions.) His characterization of Daily Planet Clark Kent is very much owing more towards bronze age Clark and less the more recent versions. His power levels seem very much Bronze age. The way he writes Kara and Clark's relationship. So on and so forth.

    Much in the same way Tomasi's run often times felt like a spiritual successor to the Jeph Loeb/ Joe Kelly era and Jurgens was a spiritual successor to his own 90s era. Bendis probably was a regular Superman reader in the Bronze Age and that is where he seems to gravitate towards as his personal starting point.

    It's tough for me to describe since I give the people tons of credit for being as original in execution as is consistently feasible given a short period of time and a character history of 80 years. But at least, I feel like their influences have been excellently representing the character at large. Like I wouldn't call the DP stuff bronze age since he didn't work with Perry or even at the DP because of being directly under Edge, but then as it's been said the Dominators scene calls back to what I'm sure many would of us call the best "event" of the 70s, Superman vs Ali. And the silver age Kryptonians right next to Reborn Jor-el. The main antagonist might as well be Rogolday, shell shocked cousin to the infamous monster.

    It's sort of like what they've been hoping they could have since Johns and Romita teamed up but including the "composite character history" Johns also tried pre flashpoint.

  11. #71
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who DIDN'T find the Superman/Martian Manguy conversation to be weird?
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  12. #72
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    Although I've burned out on Bendis from his later Marvel runs, I thought in a new setting (DC, Superman) that maybe he'd be able to recapture the magic of his earlier work. So, I decided to give this issue a read (I did not read the MoS mini series).

    I instantly had a sense of revulsion to the issue. All his worse tendencies were on display here:
    1. Characters acting differently from how they normally act (J'onn), just to serve the plot.
    2. Characters bantering in a repetitive manner
    3. Twists that occur with little development.

    It sucks that I respond this way, as it always seems like he always starts with an interesting kernel of an idea, but fails to develop it in a natural way. He also comes up with interesting ways to structure his comics (like Superman constantly interrupting J'onn to run off and save people), but uses it in an unsubtle way.

    I don't think he is ruining Superman (although I have enjoyed how he's been connected with Lois and Jon) and understand how he would do away with what doesn't fit with his story telling goal (Not Superman as husband and father). But, I don't think I can stand how he writes his stories, so I am stepping off his run.

  13. #73
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    The thing that bothers me about J'onn and Superman is that it's reminiscent of the devil tempting Jesus and since when is J'onn that figure. Also, we have spent so much time reading about Batman lobotomizing the Justice League that it seems impossible for any super hero to step out of line at this point. All it takes is Kryptonite chewing gum, seriously. Also we have spent so many years establishing J'onn, Diana, and Barry as equals (or superior) to Superman that it seems odd for him to be so busy. Why wouldn't J'onn be helping? Is he lazy or just doesn't care?

  14. #74
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    They're all seen in space suits floating around, he killed none of them.
    No corpse, no death. It's how the Joker stays alive.

  15. #75
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Thunders! View Post
    The thing that bothers me about J'onn and Superman is that it's reminiscent of the devil tempting Jesus and since when is J'onn that figure. Also, we have spent so much time reading about Batman lobotomizing the Justice League that it seems impossible for any super hero to step out of line at this point. All it takes is Kryptonite chewing gum, seriously. Also we have spent so many years establishing J'onn, Diana, and Barry as equals (or superior) to Superman that it seems odd for him to be so busy. Why wouldn't J'onn be helping? Is he lazy or just doesn't care?
    The Martian Manhunter can't keep up with the work level that Superman has. Plus, there was a lot of fire.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

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