View Poll Results: How would you rate this issue?

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  1. #31
    Amazing Member WonderSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baseman View Post
    I think you missed his point.He was saying she was strong regardedless of whether she's superpowered or not while Jason was only strong with his powers.

    Its not uncommon for writers to depower male heros of time to time.Superman had to go though that several times if I'm not mistaken.
    I did not missed his point. The fact that he thinks that Gloria Steinem was misguided says it all.
    He wasn't comparing her to Jason, so I don't understand why you are saying he was.
    Superman as gone through depowering, but also massive amps, as most male super heroes. It's rare for women, they get depowered more often, or something goes wrong/they lose control.

  2. #32
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baseman View Post
    I think you missed his point.He was saying she was strong regardless of whether she's superpowered or not.It wasn't that she needed to be depowered to be strong

    Its not uncommon for writers to depower male heros of time to time.Superman had to go though that several times if I'm not mistaken.
    There are short term plots during which heroes are depowered, yes.

    This went on for *years* where Diana needed a male mentor to survive (I-Ching).

    It wasn't the usual 'oh, no, I've lost my powers for a few issues, however will I get them back!' It was 'I give up all of my powers so I can run a flower shop and be a normal human being forever!'

    Show me any story for a major male character that comes close, please!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderSpace View Post
    I did not missed his point. The fact that he thinks that Gloria Steinem was misguided says it all.
    He wasn't comparing her to Jason, so I don't understand why you are saying he was.
    Superman as gone through depowering, but also massive amps, as most male super heroes. It's rare for women, they get depowered more often, or something goes wrong/they lose control.
    It doesnt say anything other than he has a differnt view of a particluar point in Wonder Womens history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    There are short term plots during which heroes are depowered, yes.

    This went on for *years* where Diana needed a male mentor to survive (I-Ching).

    It wasn't the usual 'oh, no, I've lost my powers for a few issues, however will I get them back!' It was 'I give up all of my powers so I can run a flower shop and be a normal human being forever!'

    Show me any story for a major male character that comes close, please!
    Yes the Length of time that WW spent depowered was unusual, however,this was when Superhero comics had hit a downturn and DC was experimenting with different genres if I'm not mistaken so that the reason why it lasted as long as it did.

    The fact remained that the trope itself this uncommon.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by raidensix View Post
    Jason is like a magic-based Ultra-Boy.

    Most likely, another writer will bring him back later and he'll be all evil and blaming Diana for his being trapped with the Dark gods.
    Exactly. This was supposed to be a plot line that defined who Jason was, give him a purpose, give him unique powers, and then have him fulfill the prophecy of saving the day -- all which it did. Jason was a slacker and partier, decides he wants to be a hero, finds out that is difficult, mistakenly gets armor meant for his sister, uses that armor heroically, but still has failures, but at the end of the day saves the day. I thought it was well thought out.

    Did Wonder Woman give up some personal time so that they could flesh out her brother? Yes. And male heroes have done that for other superheroes male and female in many other plotlines in many other comics.

    Anyway, if someone says "what is Jason's unique power," the answer is just like raidensix says - he's a Greek God Ultra Boy! It kind of makes him more powerful than his sister (more powers), but she is incredible with the powers she has - so in the end, there is no competition at the moment.

    The question is, of course, when he returns, will he be given a superhero name, and will it be derivative of Wonder Woman? He should - Supergirl and Batgirl did it, it seems only fair! That being said, Wonder Man is taken, and the Argonaut or the "Errant Knight" seems appropriate to me. We will see!

  5. #35
    Incredible Member MarquisAsh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasar's Bands View Post
    Exactly. This was supposed to be a plot line that defined who Jason was, give him a purpose, give him unique powers, and then have him fulfill the prophecy of saving the day -- all which it did. Jason was a slacker and partier, decides he wants to be a hero, finds out that is difficult, mistakenly gets armor meant for his sister, uses that armor heroically, but still has failures, but at the end of the day saves the day. I thought it was well thought out.

    Did Wonder Woman give up some personal time so that they could flesh out her brother? Yes. And male heroes have done that for other superheroes male and female in many other plotlines in many other comics.

    Anyway, if someone says "what is Jason's unique power," the answer is just like raidensix says - he's a Greek God Ultra Boy! It kind of makes him more powerful than his sister (more powers), but she is incredible with the powers she has - so in the end, there is no competition at the moment.

    The question is, of course, when he returns, will he be given a superhero name, and will it be derivative of Wonder Woman? He should - Supergirl and Batgirl did it, it seems only fair! That being said, Wonder Man is taken, and the Argonaut or the "Errant Knight" seems appropriate to me. We will see!
    Well Wonder Woman is getting new powers in the justice league dark book. ��

  6. #36
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    There are short term plots during which heroes are depowered, yes.

    This went on for *years* where Diana needed a male mentor to survive (I-Ching).

    It wasn't the usual 'oh, no, I've lost my powers for a few issues, however will I get them back!' It was 'I give up all of my powers so I can run a flower shop and be a normal human being forever!'

    Show me any story for a major male character that comes close, please!
    Donner's Superman II kind of comes close? I think it was the length of time that really made it a problem. Like you said most depowerings only last a few issues.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Show me any story for a major male character that comes close, please!
    Smallville? I kid of course. You make a very good point.

  8. #38
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    I don`t much care for political and ideolized noise targetting comics, mainsplaying included. It`s nonsentical wording that does not define anything.

    However, the article does next to nothing to change my opinion about Robinson`s body of work, both my likes and disiikes. Nothing of what he says is too controversial when it comes to the main character of the book. He`s on the opinion that Diana works as a warrior whether she has powers or not. Nothing outstandingly original as views come and go.

    By the way, male superheroes who`ve had storyarcs where they lose powers/abilities:/are depowered: Captain America, Superman, Hercules, Cyper, Doctor Strange, Thor, Daredevil, Wolverine, Ben Grimm, Sub-Mariner and Spiderman, on top of my head. Technically, you can even include "Demon in The Bottle" for Tony since he couldn`t function as Iron Man whatsoever for awhile.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasar's Bands View Post
    Exactly. This was supposed to be a plot line that defined who Jason was, give him a purpose, give him unique powers, and then have him fulfill the prophecy of saving the day -- all which it did. Jason was a slacker and partier, decides he wants to be a hero, finds out that is difficult, mistakenly gets armor meant for his sister, uses that armor heroically, but still has failures, but at the end of the day saves the day. I thought it was well thought out.

    Did Wonder Woman give up some personal time so that they could flesh out her brother? Yes. And male heroes have done that for other superheroes male and female in many other plotlines in many other comics.

    Anyway, if someone says "what is Jason's unique power," the answer is just like raidensix says - he's a Greek God Ultra Boy! It kind of makes him more powerful than his sister (more powers), but she is incredible with the powers she has - so in the end, there is no competition at the moment.

    The question is, of course, when he returns, will he be given a superhero name, and will it be derivative of Wonder Woman? He should - Supergirl and Batgirl did it, it seems only fair! That being said, Wonder Man is taken, and the Argonaut or the "Errant Knight" seems appropriate to me. We will see!
    That is assuming that we'll ever see him again.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Well, it's finally over...

    Not much actually happens in the story. Jason has tricked the Dark Gods due to his ridiculously overpowered "can-use-any-god-ability" outfit. He pretends that he's under their influence, and tricks them into entering Diana's unconscious body (he put her to sleep using Morpheus's god powers; she was willing obviously). There, they try to battle the Dark Gods, but then Jason comes up with an idea. He offers himself to King Best in exchange for returning the Justice League and leaving this plane of existence, returning to the dark multiverse. King Best for whatever reason decides this is a good idea and Jason says his goodbyes to Diana and vanishes. All the while, Diana talks to Steve about it in standard Robinson dialogue.

    The most important takeaway? Diana doesn't like Steve's beard because it hurts when they kiss.

    So yeah... no big ultimate battle with the Dark Gods. They were so supremely bland that I really honestly hope we never see them again. As for Jason... we all hoped this would happen so, yay? He's not six feet under but I don't think he'll return anytime soon.
    What an utter waste of my time and money, not to mention good paper.

    For the first time I can remember since Azzarello #7, I actually used curse words reading a WW comic. When Jason revealed he was only faking his madness it just slipped out.

    Then when he started going through his LITANY of amazing super powers, I just wanted to throw up in my mouth.

    Look, this was bad. I didn't like the way Aaron lamed down Thor while Jane Foster had the hammer, but at least I like Jane as a character. This is like that, but far worse because I just absolutely LOATHE Jason. That is not a word I can recall using on a comic character before but I use it now.

    And then lets get rid of Steve. Hey, it's not like he has been used in any useful way for months, but we will get rid of him now because we can't have an actual interesting male supporting character in the book now Robinson's pet monkey is gone.

    Right now, my cat is sitting on this copy of WW #50. No joke, he is sitting right on it. It's even the variant cover, and I don't even care. If he started scratching it up I wouldn't make a move to stop him.

    Ugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    There are short term plots during which heroes are depowered, yes.

    This went on for *years* where Diana needed a male mentor to survive (I-Ching).

    It wasn't the usual 'oh, no, I've lost my powers for a few issues, however will I get them back!' It was 'I give up all of my powers so I can run a flower shop and be a normal human being forever!'

    Show me any story for a major male character that comes close, please!
    In fairness - Aaron's entire run on The Mighty Thor. Three years of it where Thor loses his hammer, gets his arm cut off, and fails at pretty much everything he attempts. Meanwhile Jane sails through it like a flawless paragon, using his powers better than he can.
    Last edited by brettc1; 07-12-2018 at 09:48 PM.
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  11. #41
    Spectacular Member Natamaxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Please take care not to cross the boundary between discussion (even if it's angry/frustrated discussion ) and personal attacks against a creator.

    You can slam the creation all you want (terrible story! the art sucked!), but you cannot describe the creators in those terms (she's an idiot! he's a hack!)

    Thanks!

    "I was already getting crap from social media about how this is Wonder Woman's book and she should be the center of attention at all time. You know how strident Wonder Woman fans can be.", he says in an interview he knows will be published.

  12. #42
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasar's Bands View Post
    Exactly. This was supposed to be a plot line that defined who Jason was, give him a purpose, give him unique powers, and then have him fulfill the prophecy of saving the day -- all which it did. Jason was a slacker and partier, decides he wants to be a hero, finds out that is difficult, mistakenly gets armor meant for his sister, uses that armor heroically, but still has failures, but at the end of the day saves the day. I thought it was well thought out...

    The question is, of course, when he returns, will he be given a superhero name, and will it be derivative of Wonder Woman? He should - Supergirl and Batgirl did it, it seems only fair! That being said, Wonder Man is taken, and the Argonaut or the "Errant Knight" seems appropriate to me. We will see!
    A couple of defining, epic moments, with the best of them, at the finale, might have made up for what the plot did not do.

    I'd liked to have seen Jason tear off that pseudo-Egyptian, leftover-from-Boorman's-Excalibur junkyard, he called a uniform, down to his Amazon-weave armored shirt and the once blue pants (of course), ..and faced the Dark Gods with just his muscle and elemental powers. You know...some scene where he determines he'll go out, like a man ..or an Amazon, before using all his power and sacrificing his life to defeat them - the heroic, comic book death. I was so sure that sort of big payoff scene was coming, and it never did.

    All of that silly armor just made him look weaker to me, but thought it might get James to hurry up and give him a codename. With or without it, isn't he a little too close to Shazam (or Captain marvel) with his lightning-related powers, coming from Zeus?
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 07-13-2018 at 04:33 AM.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderSpace View Post
    I did not missed his point. The fact that he thinks that Gloria Steinem was misguided says it all.
    He wasn't comparing her to Jason, so I don't understand why you are saying he was.
    Well, the Interview is about Jason`s narrative and placement in the book versus the lead.
    Last edited by Aioros22; 07-13-2018 at 05:28 AM.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Well, it's finally over...

    Not much actually happens in the story. Jason has tricked the Dark Gods due to his ridiculously overpowered "can-use-any-god-ability" outfit. He pretends that he's under their influence, and tricks them into entering Diana's unconscious body (he put her to sleep using Morpheus's god powers; she was willing obviously). There, they try to battle the Dark Gods, but then Jason comes up with an idea. He offers himself to King Best in exchange for returning the Justice League and leaving this plane of existence, returning to the dark multiverse. King Best for whatever reason decides this is a good idea and Jason says his goodbyes to Diana and vanishes. All the while, Diana talks to Steve about it in standard Robinson dialogue.

    The most important takeaway? Diana doesn't like Steve's beard because it hurts when they kiss.

    So yeah... no big ultimate battle with the Dark Gods. They were so supremely bland that I really honestly hope we never see them again. As for Jason... we all hoped this would happen so, yay? He's not six feet under but I don't think he'll return anytime soon.
    I'm pretty bummed that "it's finally over" is a completely appropriate and accurate response to Robinson's interminable arc.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    By the way...

    https://www.newsarama.com/40775-wond...ing-at-50.html

    "You know how strident Wonder Woman fans can be."

    I'm now an ex-Robinson fan and he won't get a dime from me ever again.
    That is quite a frustrating interview. Robinson doesn't seem to have a really strong connection to Diana's history or her fanbase (reminds me of Azzarello), if he thinks of Wonder Woman fans as primarily "strident" and separate from "people who enjoy what I'm doing." Shouldn't, you know, Wonder Woman fans be a fan of what's happening in a book called "Wonder Woman"?

    I think he has a point with the idea that powers do not make Diana a hero - but that should also be the case for Superman, and it generally isn't. (Convergence: Superman actually did make him heroic without powers, but 52, for all its strength, kind of made him a prop for most of the book, at least in my memory of it.) Combine that statement with his clear failure to understand why Wonder Woman fans weren't happy with what he was doing, and I don't think it's a great picture.
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