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  1. #26836
    Astonishing Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del torro View Post
    Seagles run is right after OZT and the change is like night and day.
    Jean steps out from the background and is part of the main characters again, she stops complaining about how much she is straining to do anything, she tells it straight to her friends that she will stop holding back her powers just because they are scared. Revolution was a godsend for Jean, Claremont wrote her as confident and compassionate, having playful humorous side, a hot angry side and a cold dangerous side, and the other writers of that email kind of followed that.

    The 90s are weird tho, have Jean lift a plane or make an illusion and make her cry about the strain, but then have her shield from an exploding Island or fly into a white hole really casually like it's nothing. It gives me whiplash.
    The 90s was the time when the powers levels started to became inconsistent to an extent, i don't think that she was the only one, but Jean was probably one of the most noticeable cases.

  2. #26837
    Incredible Member Celestialbodies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del torro View Post
    I've always loved Operation Zero Tolerance (second fave after Onslaught), but this sequence of events annoys me so much.





    So yeah the writer made Jean do something cool, but felt the need to bring it down so it wouldn't look too overpowered.
    She made the soldiers see illusions of bastion and used her intelligence to confuse them with the password part, but just had to soil it by making her cry in Scotts arms about the strain of "keeping up the illusions".

    In the 90s they kept calling her one of the most powerful Telepaths on earth, so why make her cry about the strain of making a few soldiers see an illusion, something she'd been doing easily for years. This was a period when Nate grey, Xavier, Gamemaster, Exodus and Emma frost were doing big telepathic feats without crying, it's just really annoying because Jean seemed to be the only one complaining about the stress and strain of everything.

    And "keeping up the illusions in their psyches", like what? Who is she keeping illusions in their psyches? There's no one watching them now for her to project illusions on, and Telepaths don't need to continuously keep up illusions in the minds of people they showed illusions before.

    It just feels like the writer didn't want to make her not seem overpowered, and decided to make up something. Don't know why this sequence always makes me salty, it could have been one of Jeans cool feats, but the part at the end of her crying about her straining to maintain illusions when there's no one to project illusions on just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    The 90's were one of the few periods in which Jean stayed for the entire decade, the problem was no one was really interested in developing her. She had a few moments here and there but for someone who was second to Xavier, she always froze in the face of other telepaths.

    I'm petty but I resented the focus and creative usages of Tp/Tk newer psychics got like Exodus, and Nate Grey. There Jean was with an established history and the necessary tools and she was still looking to Charles for guidance and direction staying in the background.

  3. #26838
    Lunatic Member The_Phenom2893's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del torro View Post
    The 90s are weird tho, have Jean lift a plane or make an illusion and make her cry about the strain, but then have her shield from an exploding Island or fly into a white hole really casually like it's nothing. It gives me whiplash.
    Lifting the plane was written by the same writer (Larry Hama) who wrote the illusion of Bastion. I think she's was like that, because she wasn't at 100%, nobody was 100% there. It wasn't until they got out of facility.

    Also, literally the previous arc she fights Ogun, and beats him without breaking a sweat.

  4. #26839
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Yeah - I think that saying OZT is a bad showing for Jean is a pretty large misinterpretation. Larry Hama was one of the writers in the nineties that got Jean and, along with Lobdell and Claremont, led to Morrison writing her the way that he did in New X-Men.

    It gave us good feats such as Jean holding Scott together at the seams, the original appearance of the pink form (or at least, what people assume is adult Jean's pink form), the Bastion illusion, etc.

    "I've never felt the world so angry. So divided. I can hear you. I can hear your pain. Your fear. Your anxiety. I want to help. I don't know how, but I'll learn." - X-Men Red #1(2018)

  5. #26840
    The Great Bull Del torro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Yeah - I think that saying OZT is a bad showing for Jean is a pretty large misinterpretation. Larry Hama was one of the writers in the nineties that got Jean and, along with Lobdell and Claremont, led to Morrison writing her the way that he did in New X-Men.

    It gave us good feats such as Jean holding Scott together at the seams, the original appearance of the pink form (or at least, what people assume is adult Jean's pink form), the Bastion illusion, etc.
    I never said that OZT is a bad showing for Jean. I said it's one of my favorite crossovers. Jean did a lot of impressive things in it, like holding Scott together, holding millions of microscopic robots apart,and other stuff.
    I'm talking about how the nature of this scene bothers me, because Jean is complaining about the strain of maintaining an illusion in people's minds, but that's not how illusions works, so it just seems off.

  6. #26841
    The Great Bull Del torro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Phenom2893 View Post
    Lifting the plane was written by the same writer (Larry Hama) who wrote the illusion of Bastion. I think she's was like that, because she wasn't at 100%, nobody was 100% there. It wasn't until they got out of facility.

    Also, literally the previous arc she fights Ogun, and beats him without breaking a sweat.
    You're right, I didn't see it that way. They'd been in a plane crash and captured by sentinels.

    Does OGUN have any notable telepathic powers? I just thought he was he ghost of a sorcerer who possesses people to troll wolverine.

  7. #26842
    Amazing Member johnnysv75's Avatar
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    I think the problem (with Jean in the 90s) is that every time Jean did something powerful there was always the suspicion: ”Will she become Phoenix again?” Everyone else could get power boosts without that ”fear”, but Jean and Phoenix are so intertwined that it hindered her development. Until Seagle sort of said: ”Screw it, let’s explore it instead.” (And then the editors got cold feet, and Jean lost her powers for a while.)
    Last edited by johnnysv75; Yesterday at 05:32 AM.

  8. #26843
    Mighty Member 5cents's Avatar
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    I was thinking should Jean finally be called Phoenix in the films?
    First X-Lady

  9. #26844
    Extraordinary Member SpiderClops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5cents View Post
    I was thinking should Jean finally be called Phoenix in the films?
    First she needs to stop being a plot device. Names can come later.
    “Indifference and neglect often do much more damage than outright dislike.”
    -Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

  10. #26845
    Mighty Member 5cents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    First she needs to stop being a plot device. Names can come later.
    It would be nice if Jean had the code name in a movie if only for a little bit. I’m wondering if the x-men go back to marvel are they going to start all over with the x-men. I kinda want them to.
    First X-Lady

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