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  1. #6511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alycat View Post
    Haven't read Trinity yet, but that's no surprise. Old man Jason in Batwoman is nice though.
    Don't know, Jason is imo not really a character that should stay behind and just watch the computers (or even join the Colony). And I really don't like Jason being again just support for an other Batfamily member.

    It is also wired to have him in the old crippled Man role when he is actually much younger than Kate (and not much older than Tim).

    I still prefer Futers End Jason as gritty alternate future version (btw. I'm curious if he will appear in Beyond and this Nightwing elseworld story).

  2. #6512

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    Yeah both Trinity and Batwoman were bad showings for Jason.

    As Aahz points out, Jason on Batwoman is not Jason but rather a character with his name and an appearance that as is usual for Tynion is all about the show but it goes no deeper than the surface. Trinity on the other hand does exactly what I expected and treat the characters as glorified mooks for the Trinity to beat. Bizarro's character is entirely wrong and Jason and Artemis fall for Circe's schemes like chumps and without putting a real fight. No All Blades, no Bow of Ra, no nothing. And for all the complains about the so grandiose power of Circe, turns out the Outlaws get beaten by the freaking LOA.

    The worse part? That once again, they can't be arsed to do their research on Jason and pull the card that Jason really wants to kill Bruce something that is not only against his current characterization but against the entire core of his character.

    Granted, the stories can right their course on upcoming issues but I wouldn't hold my breath about seeing a significant change.

  3. #6513
    Astonishing Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Yeah both Trinity and Batwoman were bad showings for Jason.

    As Aahz points out, Jason on Batwoman is not Jason but rather a character with his name and an appearance that as is usual for Tynion is all about the show but it goes no deeper than the surface.
    Why, specifically?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Don't know, Jason is imo not really a character that should stay behind and just watch the computers (or even join the Colony). And I really don't like Jason being again just support for an other Batfamily member.
    Same question. Why, specifically, does that bother you? He's clearly not in top shape here.
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  4. #6514

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Why, specifically?



    Same question. Why, specifically, does that bother you? He's clearly not in top shape here.
    Because Jason is a man of action, not a detective.

    Despite all the time that has happened, and the things they've lived through together, he struggles to feel confortable with Bruce. The man he sees like a father so it doesn't mesh with him being all happy and willing to work with Kate and against Tim no less.

    Jason always will lend a hand when needed but ultimately he wants to be his own man, not a sidekick again.

    And then you come to the way he's depicted, as a bargain bin Nick Fury because that is what the "cool kids" like despite him being much younger than Kate. And no "hard" life doesn't account for making him look plus 60 years old when he shouldn't be older than 40 at most

  5. #6515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Yeah both Trinity and Batwoman were bad showings for Jason.

    As Aahz points out, Jason on Batwoman is not Jason but rather a character with his name and an appearance that as is usual for Tynion is all about the show but it goes no deeper than the surface. Trinity on the other hand does exactly what I expected and treat the characters as glorified mooks for the Trinity to beat. Bizarro's character is entirely wrong and Jason and Artemis fall for Circe's schemes like chumps and without putting a real fight. No All Blades, no Bow of Ra, no nothing. And for all the complains about the so grandiose power of Circe, turns out the Outlaws get beaten by the freaking LOA.

    The worse part? That once again, they can't be arsed to do their research on Jason and pull the card that Jason really wants to kill Bruce something that is not only against his current characterization but against the entire core of his character.

    Granted, the stories can right their course on upcoming issues but I wouldn't hold my breath about seeing a significant change.
    I don't really agree that we're supposed to see it as Jason really wanting to kill Bruce. He's possessed - and it's the demon possessing him that is saying those words. Of course a demon will say things designed to hurt.

  6. #6516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Same question. Why, specifically, does that bother you?
    Among the Batfamily members, Jason is imo (together with Dick and Cass) one of the most straight up action guys. If you leave him behind playing Alfred he can't really do what he is good at.
    I could get behind it if he was (Batman Beyond style) playing mentor for a younger hero, but for an older character that still can kick ass while he can't that's not great.
    And with Jason disregard for rules and authorities him being part of military organisation is also a little wired.


    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    He's clearly not in top shape here.
    Thats by choice of the writers.

  7. #6517
    Astonishing Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Because Jason is a man of action, not a detective.

    Despite all the time that has happened, and the things they've lived through together, he struggles to feel confortable with Bruce. The man he sees like a father so it doesn't mesh with him being all happy and willing to work with Kate and against Tim no less.
    I'm not getting how you think he was happy. Or how he's acting like a detective.

    Jason always will lend a hand when needed but ultimately he wants to be his own man, not a sidekick again.
    I think this bad future certainly qualifies for that.

    And then you come to the way he's depicted, as a bargain bin Nick Fury because that is what the "cool kids" like despite him being much younger than Kate. And no "hard" life doesn't account for making him look plus 60 years old when he shouldn't be older than 40 at most
    I agree that he looks too old, but so does everyone else, so... meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Among the Batfamily members, Jason is imo (together with Dick and Cass) one of the most straight up action guys. If you leave him behind playing Alfred he can't really do what he is good at.
    I could get behind it if he was (Batman Beyond style) playing mentor for a younger hero, but for an older character that still can kick ass while he can't that's not great.
    And with Jason disregard for rules and authorities him being part of military organisation is also a little wired.
    If those things are the case, I'm taking it as a sign that things are profoundly bad in this future, and have been for a while. Plus, he and Kate are clearly old friends, something that's not the case presently, and the two are meeting again in the next RHaTO arc. It might be the case that Future!Jason joined the Colony because he has nowhere else to turn and knows Kate well enough at that point to approach her for a position.

    Thats by choice of the writers.
    Yes...? It explains why he can't be out in the field (and even then, that's not the actual reason, since the dialogue implies Kate normally wouldn't have any objection to that).
    Last edited by Caivu; 08-16-2017 at 11:19 AM.
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  8. #6518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    And then you come to the way he's depicted, as a bargain bin Nick Fury because that is what the "cool kids" like despite him being much younger than Kate. And no "hard" life doesn't account for making him look plus 60 years old when he shouldn't be older than 40 at most
    Btw. I wondering how old they will make Tim in that story (he isn't really much younger than Jason) and if he will again (like in Futures End) get a growth spurt of if we will see a 5'6'' Batman

  9. #6519
    "Im Mary Poppins Yall!" Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Because Jason is a man of action, not a detective
    I have the issue, but just from looking at the preview my quick responses would be:

    a) If he`s not the man in action he tends to be it`s due to his current condition.

    b) "He`s no detective". Well, he trained to be one, among other things by Batman. You notice you are underselling one aspect of his because you don`t have the other so far? Jason casually deals with information flowing, he knows how to investigate. Loedbell started this RATHO showcasing exactly that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Despite all the time that has happened, and the things they've lived through together, he struggles to feel confortable with Bruce. The man he sees like a father so it doesn't mesh with him being all happy and willing to work with Kate and against Tim no less
    a) He struggles, but he`s able to.

    b) Weird. I feel he`s so self relient on his own code that if he felt Tim was on the wrong side or doing the wrong things - like it seems to be the case - he would. Injustice 2 ends with him basically saying even Batman is part of the circle of bad blood the planet is stuck with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Jason always will lend a hand when needed but ultimately he wants to be his own man, not a sidekick again
    I need to read more to see if he`s lending a hand or being a sidedick. I think so far it works in the setting. Jason as someone who follows his code is hellbent to his own responsabilities (he`s like Bruce in that regard) and he especifically mentions guilt over not stopping Tim before and letting this happen.

    Bushido code bro. He`s seemingly in no shape in doing this alone and Kate and the Colony provide resources he likely does not have since Tim went fascist and took over (Dick and Damian aren`t mentioned whatsoever, maybe they`re dead too). Despite this, there`s a line of dialogue I`m reading (with a smirk no less!) about how he`s still a great shot even with the difficulties his present condition present. I get the feeling he`s not just going to sit out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    And then you come to the way he's depicted, as a bargain bin Nick Fury because that is what the "cool kids" like despite him being much younger than Kate. And no "hard" life doesn't account for making him look plus 60 years old when he shouldn't be older than 40 at most
    I`m not crazy about the eyepatch but he doesn`t look as or over 60..
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  10. #6520
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    I don't think it's a big deal. There's an army to fight out there so why go solo instead of lending your support to another army? If Jason can play Alfred to Kate then it only makes him more versatile as a character. The fact that she says she needs him is good enough, no?

  11. #6521
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    I'm not seeing the problem with Jason in Batwoman. He looks like he's gone through some things and working with Kate for the greater good. Also Jason could totally be a detective if he wanted too, so what's this nonsense about only action.

    Trinity wasn't even that bad. I'm gonna pretend mouth helmet is now just a demon that possess Jason from time to time.

  12. #6522
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiedokiewo View Post
    I don't really agree that we're supposed to see it as Jason really wanting to kill Bruce. He's possessed - and it's the demon possessing him that is saying those words. Of course a demon will say things designed to hurt
    That`s because he thinks Jason would be able to guard himself against that sort of "evil". He`s done it before but it wasn`t by Circe so that`s always a grey area leading to other factors. With that out of the bag, why would it want to hurt Bruce?

    The reason should be simply af. The Trinity are 3 fellas. Dark Trinity are 3 fellas. Each have a similar theme/role in each Trinity. There`s no one else a demon possessed Red Hood would target given who is behind this, emotionally or physically.
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  13. #6523
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    Jason shouldn't even be in his 30's in that timeline much less 60's or even 40's. 5 years to his current age suggest maybe 29 tops, yikes that was definitely a hige slip up.

  14. #6524

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    Quote Originally Posted by okiedokiewo View Post
    I don't really agree that we're supposed to see it as Jason really wanting to kill Bruce. He's possessed - and it's the demon possessing him that is saying those words. Of course a demon will say things designed to hurt.
    You've seen the issue. They aren't giving the Outlaws any more characterization that he strictly needed nor playing any straight up twists with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    I'm not getting how you think he was happy. Or how he's acting like a detective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    I have the issue, but just from looking at the preview my quick responses would be:

    a) If he`s not the man in action he tends to be it`s due to his current condition.

    b) "He`s no detective". Well, he trained to be one, among other things by Batman. You notice you are underselling one aspect of his because you don`t have the other so far? Jason casually deals with information flowing, he knows how to investigate. Loedbell started this RATHO showcasing exactly that.
    He's having playful banter with Kate and the framing of the story makes clear they've been working together for a long time with Jason being Kate's mission control.

    I'm not underselling anything. Multiple times and under multiple writers Jason has been depicted as being the one who takes action rather than meticulously plan ahead. With Lobdell even going so far to have him admit he rather leave the details of day to day live to Roy while he fights crime.

    I think this bad future certainly qualifies for that.
    If the entire world being at risk of a massive alien invasion where Bruce is dead didn't got him to work with someone else, a military regime on Gotham doing it is risible.



    I agree that he looks too old, but so does everyone else, so... meh.
    Kate and Montoya look really well for someone pushing their fifties and Jason despite being decades younger don't.


    If those things are the case, I'm taking it as a sign that things are profoundly bad in this future, and have been for a while. Plus, he and Kate are clearly old friends, something that's not the case presently, and the two are meeting again in the next RHaTO arc. It might be the case that Future!Jason joined the Colony because he has nowhere else to turn and knows Kate well enough at that point to approach her for a position.
    Jason has always assumed he's on his own and he always looks to find on his own a way to survive. So again, him going to Kate is an stretch.


    Yes...? It explains why he can't be out in the field (and even then, that's not the actual reason, since the dialogue implies Kate normally wouldn't have any objection to that).
    Exactly, the dialogue implies he's perfectly able to do stuff on his own. No need to be inside a ship playing mission control. Remember, this is the man that dug himself out of a grave and survived on the streets with brain damage.

    a) He struggles, but he`s able to.
    But ultimately he always decides to go on his own.

    b) Weird. I feel he`s so self relient on his own code that if he felt Tim was on the wrong side or doing the wrong things - like it seems to be the case - he would. Injustice 2 ends with him basically saying even Batman is part of the circle of bad blood the planet is stuck with.
    And that why he is not one to remain following anyone's orders long.

    I need to read more to see if he`s lending a hand or being a sidedick. I think so far it works in the setting. Jason as someone who follows his code is hellbent to his own responsabilities (he`s like Bruce in that regard) and he especifically mentions guilt over not stopping Tim before and letting this happen.

    Bushido code bro. He`s seemingly in no shape in doing this alone and Kate and the Colony provide resources he likely does not have since Tim went fascist and took over (Dick and Damian aren`t mentioned whatsoever, maybe they`re dead too). Despite this, there`s a line of dialogue I`m reading (with a smirk no less!) about how he`s still a great shot even with the difficulties his present condition present. I get the feeling he`s not just going to sit out of it.
    Feeling responsible for something is another reason it doesn't fit he will be willing to sit on the sidelines. And as FE's showed, Jason without his friends becomes reckless and suicidal.

    I`m not crazy about the eyepatch but he doesn`t look as or over 60..
    Compare him to Kate and Montoya.

  15. #6525
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    Ok read Trinity. Doesn't hate it actually, mainly because Batman was portrayed as a good dad, but I guess it will depend on how Jason will be written next issue.

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