View Poll Results: Who is the better Captain America/ Partner for Steve Rogers?

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  • Bucky's the better replacement.

    51 73.91%
  • Falcon is the better replacement.

    12 17.39%
  • Bucky's the better partner.

    22 31.88%
  • Falcon's the better partner.

    26 37.68%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #61
    Senior Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExcelsiorPrime View Post
    There is one way Remender could put an end to the debate..that would be for Winter Soldier to go all " Manchurian Candidate" again and have Falcon beat the crap out of Winter Soldier.

    It would remove all doubt. And its not like anyone can ever be sure Bucky isn't Russian Controlled.
    It wouldn't remove any doubt. Readers would see through it as Remender trying to cement his Cap. Sales will probably be the best indicator.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Trident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megaharrison View Post
    Announcing it on the Colbert Report and The View, for one. Oh yeah, it was sure done for the integrity of comic storytelling.
    That's one the most bias and short sighted comments on this topic I have seen thus far.

    When Cap died only a few years back Buck appeared on television and several articles as well. He was advertised as Cap with a GUN. In fact I'm almost willing to say more outlets covered it than they did of Sam for several reason.

    Also, what the heck is wrong with advertising your product to get more people to come buy the comic? The logic that any book shouldn't be announced on tv in fear that they will send some "pandering" or "political" message is not only asinine but it cripples the very industry your profess to care about.

    Here is a News Bulletin for anyone who is thinking along the same lines.......To get new consumers you don't just advertise within the medium you are working in. I know ...I know... it's a mind boggling concept but trust me you stay on you side of the fence and eventually your business will die because while you catering only to the those who are already buying from you they slowly died off or became less interested in what you where handing out due to the repetitiveness of it. Business have to expand their reach to bring in new people and new ideas to survive.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExcelsiorPrime View Post
    Bucky didn't earn it. How exactly does a character that has been dead for decades earn the right to be Captain America after spending decades killing Americans..and American interests?

    And dont hand me..it was a well written story--there has to be more than that?
    oh he definitely earned it. he put on the captain america costume to find redemption - the entire period where he was captain america was all about him becoming worthy of the legacy - something he never fully achieved until the very end.

    falcon, they have given him the costume and no incentive to be a better person. it's going to end badly for him because he is being treated as if he has nothing to earn.

  4. #64

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    Comparing the two isn't possible really. Both became Captain America during extremely different circumstances and both are doing it their own way. If we want to compare who did a better job, we would have to see the results based on their own developments.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExcelsiorPrime View Post
    Bucky didn't earn it. How exactly does a character that has been dead for decades earn the right to be Captain America after spending decades killing Americans..and American interests?

    And dont hand me..it was a well written story--there has to be more than that?
    What you have to consider is that Bucky and Sam are completely different. Bucky didn't don the mantle because he felt entitled to it or because it was personally passed down, he wanted to honour his friend and possibly redeem himself. He earned the title in the process.

    Arguing that Sam's better for the role because he was the more logical choice doesn't necessarily make him the better replacement. He hasn't earned the title, he's earned the chance at living up to it. And it's where Remender will take him which will determine that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExcelsiorPrime View Post
    he still has the robot arm..no?? Have the tech embedded in it..hidden in the Soviet Star. Have the Russians sell the Winter Soldier controls to a terrorist.
    Nick Fury outfitted him with a new one actually so no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Tiger View Post
    It wouldn't remove any doubt. Readers would see through it as Remender trying to cement his Cap. Sales will probably be the best indicator.
    I felt like Ewing's already taken a minor shot by having a civilian in the opening pages of Mighty Avengers saying he's better than "the gun guy", but it didn't really bother me considering the media's reaction to Bucky taking up the mantle was really critical of it.
    Last edited by Prince Of Orphans; 12-02-2014 at 08:35 AM.

  5. #65
    Senior Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExcelsiorPrime View Post
    There is one way Remender could put an end to the debate..that would be for Winter Soldier to go all " Manchurian Candidate" again and have Falcon beat the crap out of Winter Soldier.

    It would remove all doubt. And its not like anyone can ever be sure Bucky isn't Russian Controlled.
    Yeah, I'm thinking throwing Bucky under the bus in an attempt to make Sam look better probably isn't the way to go.

    Really, I think the main reason people were more excited about Winter Soldier becoming Cap is because it was a better story. Arguably one of the best stories marvel has created in decades (hence a marvel movie being based on it). No matter how well Sam does in Rememders book, he probably won't have the same interest that Bucky got. Brubakers Cap was just that good. It's not a knock against Sam in any way... Buckys story was simply much much better.

  6. #66
    CBR's GOOD FAIRY Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I'm thinking throwing Bucky under the bus in an attempt to make Sam look better probably isn't the way to go.
    Agreed. Bucky vs. Falcon specifically to trash Bucky is the WORST idea (unless the plan is to bring a huge amount of dislike on Falcon as Cap???). The last time Remender tried to "make us" like and support someone was Wanda... and look how well that turned out

  7. #67
    Senior Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    Winter Soldier is an overrated character.

    Give me US Agent.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Mikekerr3's Avatar
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    We will know aafter we get a b few books without Remender mangling the character.

  9. #69
    Senior Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trident View Post
    Can anyone name any successful books/characters that wasn't based on, inspired by, or flat out borrowed concepts from a previously successful team or character in the past 6-7 years?

    There aren't many if there are any at all. I love Sam I'm probably one of the few on this board who would place him in their top five of characters. However, everyone who says "I wish they would have use Sam as Falcon" knows that a solo title called the "Falcon" would be lucky if it made it to 4-5 issues. There is little to no support for the character and due to Axis that very well may stay that way. But even still Sams solo will at least go 12 issue simply because of the Captain American handle.

    Besides that if you are interested in the character you would support him inspite of whatever costume he is wearing. The suit doesn't make the man and the excuses are getting old IMO.
    I am one of those voices that wishes Sam had never taken up the Cap mantle. I'd prefer to see him continue building on his own brand. Thanks to the movie, Sam's popularity has never been higher. Instead of taking that full head of steam and propelling him to greater heights, they go and subsume the Falcon's identity twice over -- initially as Captain America, but compounded as an inverted Sam. The optimist in me believes that they mean well, but my inner cynic thinks that Sam's run as Captain America will probably do more harm than good over the long run to the Falcon's standing with fans. We'll just have to wait and see.

  10. #70
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    This would be the perfect time for the Falcon to break out on his own as a hero, same as Bucky had the perfect shot right after Brubaker's run.

    Both were neutered by forcing them into the role of Captain America, which is always going to be Steve Rodger's job.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  11. #71
    Nothin... ExcelsiorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Tiger View Post
    It wouldn't remove any doubt. Readers would see through it as Remender trying to cement his Cap. Sales will probably be the best indicator.
    You mean the way Brubaker cemented Winter Solider. And the way Wolverine and every other badass was cemented. Having Falcon do it--isnt reinventing the wheel.

    Why readers would reject it now is ridiculous. X-23 trashed Wolverine. Red Hulk trashed Hulk. Beta ray trashed Thor.

    Why is it now all of a sudden trite??


    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Of Orphans View Post
    Comparing the two isn't possible really. Both became Captain America during extremely different circumstances and both are doing it their own way. If we want to compare who did a better job, we would have to see the results based on their own developments.



    What you have to consider is that Bucky and Sam are completely different. Bucky didn't don the mantle because he felt entitled to it or because it was personally passed down, he wanted to honour his friend and possibly redeem himself. He earned the title in the process.

    Arguing that Sam's better for the role because he was the more logical choice doesn't necessarily make him the better replacement. He hasn't earned the title, he's earned the chance at living up to it. And it's where Remender will take him which will determine that.



    Nick Fury outfitted him with a new one actually so no.

    hence why the Manchurian Candidate Angle works. It was never the Tech. They broke inside Bucky's brain. Hypnotic suggestion.
    Last edited by ExcelsiorPrime; 12-02-2014 at 05:24 PM.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExcelsiorPrime View Post
    You mean the way Brubaker cemented Winter Solider. And the way Wolverine and every other badass was cemented. Having Falcon do it--isnt reinventing the wheel.

    Why readers would reject it now is ridiculous. X-23 trashed Wolverine. Red Hulk trashed Hulk. Beta ray trashed Thor.

    Why is it now all of a sudden trite??

    hence why the Manchurian Candidate Angle works. It was never the Tech. They broke inside Bucky's brain. Hypnotic suggestion.
    It isn't suddenly trite. Super defeats super is an overused device, and was especially dumb in the Rulk story.

    If you want to define Captain Falcon, give him good enemies. Fausts, Crazy Cap, and the Man With No Face really made Bucky Cap interesting -- his stories had personal weight behind them. Give Falcon a good rogues gallery and good stories and he will grow into the shield. Bru did literally the exact same thing with Iron Fist and it made a previously C lister widely beloved.

    We are not seeing a good rogues gallery for Cap Falc so far, but I think that can be chalked up to Axis sort of derailing things. Keep in mind, Bru deliberately steered the Bucky Cap story so it would be less effected by company wide events.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    oh he definitely earned it. he put on the captain america costume to find redemption - the entire period where he was captain america was all about him becoming worthy of the legacy - something he never fully achieved until the very end.

    falcon, they have given him the costume and no incentive to be a better person. it's going to end badly for him because he is being treated as if he has nothing to earn.
    Not questioning the narrative of living up to a legacy, wondering which charcter better fills the role at its most ideal. Maybe sam actually, like rogers, is pretty well-adjusted and "worthy" already and so doesn't need to go on a personal voyage of self-discovery and can just do what captain america is supposed to do. Bucky might make for a more compelling replacement, but I think Sam better exemplifies the ideals that I would want in a national leader/figurehead/symbol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    This would be the perfect time for the Falcon to break out on his own as a hero, same as Bucky had the perfect shot right after Brubaker's run.

    Both were neutered by forcing them into the role of Captain America, which is always going to be Steve Rodger's job.
    Bucky was neutered by being cap? Then why is he so popular since? Purely winter soldier stuff? I always got the impression that a highly respected time (from a story perspective if nothing else) as cap established his character more than anything.

  14. #74
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    its too soon to tell.

  15. #75
    Senior Member a moment closer's Avatar
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    Bucky was the Cap I most enjoyed reading about. Brubaker is an excellent writer so that's a given. It may be too soon to say that he will always rival Falcon Cap but I am biased. I will always think of Sam as Falcon Cap. When Bucky was Captain America I never thought of him as Bucky Cap or Winter Soldier, just Cap. I like both characters, I think they both deserved to carry the mantle, and I like the different costume designs. I'm really glad that Sam kept his wings. One thing I find interesting is the POV that Marvel is spinning concerning how Bucky and Sam became Cap. Bucky chose on his own to try and become a Captain America that would honor Steve, the legacy he created, and the ideals he fought and died for. Sam was chosen by Steve Rogers as his replacement. Sam was the living legend's preferred choice. So Marvel is stating that Bucky never would have become Captain America in the first place if Rogers hadn't been killed. It would have been Sam or possibly Steve's son all along to earn that title. But anyway, Bucky's my favorite, I'm glad Steve was dead for as long as he was. I appreciated his return and have become a fan of his as well. Falcon was always a better sidekick but I'm glad to see him as Cap too.

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