Page 160 of 162 FirstFirst ... 60110150156157158159160161162 LastLast
Results 2,386 to 2,400 of 2422
  1. #2386
    Incredible Member sungila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Dawnland
    Posts
    894

    Default

    9211a130fd4f275c570db5b4d951583f.jpg

    The 'WHAT HAPPENED TO' single issue Claremont device that doesn't even seen possible anymore in X-Books. Kurt more or less breaks the fourth wall during his without-a-net downward spiraling arc when he leaves the team for a few panels to meet with Father Bowen and discuss his collapse of faith and purpose - and then it's hell-bent for destruction as he pushes himself further and further through injury, pain and reckless brow furrowing angst toward that most certain crash into a coma.

    I hear you Sundowhn. It seems that Kurt's hard fought breakthroughs and breakdowns (even his death and resurrection) are never centrally important to the core story. In both a good and bad way, Nightcrawler isn't a linchpin character. He could never serve as the hub through which a major crossover or core flagship event could bind.

    But he's an incredibly successful bridge between the real audience and the hyperbolic audacity of insanely pitched dramas and impossible scenarios that are comic books. With Kurt out there in the periphery to ferry from shore to shore across the panels and pages, these events are far more accessible and sustainable.

    That's great. Wonderful. But it's also a dead end and a role somebody else could take. Nightcrawler is popular enough in the right creative hands to leave the X-Men and serve as a known free-agent in any Marvel title, with any major hero or team, in any scenario or setting, he could easily have mini solos and serve as a roving hero on his own. That's about the best I could hope for any of the OG ANAD team members, especially post-Xavier, post-Scott, post-VS, post-Claremont...

    Yet, it's Kurt 'd most like to be let go from the burden of propping up whatever the modern day X-Men are supposed to be now. He's there primarily, IMO, to create the sense that the X-Men of old are still there and that there's no cause to be alarmed. He's part of a failsafe against total collapse. But I don't think he's even feeling the pressure of that possibility. There is no weight, no real pressure, nothing to really bulwark or even give a little good ol blue elf charm and spirit to...it's not there.

    Set him free. Kill him! Seriously! Make that the storyline. Given his current immortality and how he'd actually feel and respond to that and its implications/causes IMO the death-wish persona would be perfect. It'd be conflicting, progressive, permeable, multifaceted and functionally supportive to many titles and storylines within and beyond the X-Men.

    He could be anywhere and everywhere and that's not something every Marvel hero could actually do without having to split into multiple versions of themselves.

    BAMF! It's a 'cool' intro and outro and who better to embrace being a B.A.M.F. with grace and wit and humility than Kurt?

    Dick Grayson made this transition. He's a great template and forerunner for how a sidekick can change and graduate, get out on their own and succeed.
    And they both were trapeze artists in the circus. And they both stood in the shadows of brooding seriousness with light, hope and goodness that doesn't and never did deny the dark...actually they both accept it and choose to deal with it their own way. Only, Robin flew the cave.

    I can't at all advocate or defend anything good about Austen's 'Draco'. I can hardly even address it. I can't actually. Best I can do is turn away from it and surrender to the fact that yes, it's there, but no way am I turning around to engage, acknowledge or endorse it.

    3a1deda2a6d26d660cf344067a95edb7.jpg

    Oh and do re-read the last Claremont solo series Nightcrawler fans! Please do.

    In retrospect, much after its initial run - the thing really gets to me. It's way more personal and painfully rewarding than it was for me originally. Even the mess of a Bess ending, it's...well, it's hard to explain but it's perfect in an imperfect way...in perfectly imperfect world...a perfectly imperfect hero...kinda sorta whatever and yet and so, very much so!
    Last edited by sungila; 04-02-2018 at 12:32 PM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  2. #2387
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,501

    Default

    In retrospect, I see the last solo almost as Claremont lamenting something along the lines of "Is this really what you want from him? Is this no-voice the voice he has?" It was written as brutally nostalgic. I can't help but think that was the intention.

    The situation with Amanda -- ripe for progressing one way or another (finally), or at least dealing with -- was swept under the rug. Kurt has almost no reaction to it, on top of that. The situation with Logan's death is the same -- no reaction to what had led up to it, little reaction to the aftermath. Ditto for the professor, for the status of the school and the team. Same for his soul. The absence of development was so keen, it felt like it had to be deliberate. Bess felt like a tease of what was hinted at with Betsy for years, but never developed.

    I guess I've gone back to look for the things that weren't said, to try and understand what was being communicated. Pretty backwards, right? But I enjoyed it more that way.

    I think Claremont meant to not develop him, in response to whatever -- be it nostalgia demanding fans, or editors tying his hands. Maybe, like Jean, Claremont thought Kurt should've remained dead, and he was writing a ghost. Who knows?
    Last edited by Sundowhn; 04-02-2018 at 06:47 PM.

  3. #2388
    Kurtty Fan Slicknickshady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,920

    Default

    Kurt is the best!!

  4. #2389
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,133

    Default

    question just fans. reading old Claremont issues. does nightcrawler still disappear when he is in shadows?
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  5. #2390
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Interdimensional
    Posts
    2,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    4. Illyana Rasputin and Limbo (he's been a sheath for the soulsword, I loved X-Infernus and have always felt this potential for a story) Is there something there between Magik's stepping discs and Kurt's brimstone clouds? The pathways by which these two travel between jaunts. Can and will Kurt teleport in time as he does in space? Can and will Kurt teleport inter-dimensionally? Can and will Kurt be given access to magic-Marvel in a deeper way than he has been so far? Could the Scarlet Witch be a part of this (please)?
    I would love it, mainly the bold. Kurt said he hates magics, but it seems that he's got a connection, so he should face it. And it would be great if Wanda (European adopted gypsy, just like him) was around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    One thing that grieves me is that Kurt hasn't been allowed to truly change in so many years. That which doesn't change stagnates, and all that, and it's been true of Kurt. Any time a writer has attempted to take him in a different direction, the next writer simply drops him back to where he was.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    The same happened after his Aguirre-Sacasa/Robertson solo -- they gave him an independent, somewhat disillusioned but pragmatic attitude(towards the X-Men), and it was just dropped after the book ended. The character keeps getting shoved back into the same tired roles. I read about people wanting swashbuckling and jokes -- the last solo had that in abundance, but, what if after everything the character has been through, he doesn't feel like making jokes or putting on a show? Where is the writer who will touch on that?
    True. So true.

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    question just fans. reading old Claremont issues. does nightcrawler still disappear when he is in shadows?
    Last time I remember was in Davis' Excalibur. But I'm probably really behind.


  6. #2391
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    question just fans. reading old Claremont issues. does nightcrawler still disappear when he is in shadows?
    The artist that worked with Aaron on the return implied it a little, I guess, but I don't remember the ability really being used in ages. I think Greg Land showed him appearing out of shadows once....lol.

  7. #2392
    Incredible Member sungila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Dawnland
    Posts
    894

    Default

    Kurt has no idea where he's from. His versions vary and his sources are far from trustworthy. There is no factual, physical, forensic evidence - no documents, a whole museum dedicated to the 'myth' and 'legend' only serves to further claim the fictional as foundation (with a gift shop). His own reflections, and Kurt does so often reflect, seem to be projections of narratives he reiterates and expands upon, beginnings extending from the various psychological predicaments of arresting moments of solitude. And Kurt loves narrative fantasy - he also loves the edge of...well, just that, the edge...

    Nothing adds up. Does he have any idea if he's currently actually exiled from Heaven or serving as a sentry at the vulnerable mortal permeations where Paradise confluences with the generative wellsprings of life? Is he, himself, this confluence? Was his restlessness in Heaven truly a matter of unquenchable desire for adventure or absolute horror at actually knowing and confirming place and origin?

    Even if the basics are right, they're wrong. Winzeldorf is not actually where Kurt says it is, it isn't where he goes when he visits, it's not in the Bavarian Alps, it's nowhere near the Black Forests where he played and he became the pariah of the Szardos family tragedy.

    What may be most accurate is that Kurt is an orphan who grew up in a traveling one ring circus. That he is a Mutant is questionable, that he is a devil is debatable - if he is saintly and than he is equally and as much as any any saint - insane. (talking to animals, making miracles, levitating, teleporting, prehensile tail and such...)

    * I had this long response that addressed everyone's posts individually but I accidentally lost it. It's a part of the past I couldn't seem able to retrieve.

    But I do ask you, do you have a more or less actual sort of origin story for Kurt that you draw from or is it something sorta kinda this and that and not entirely anything exact at all? That's how it is for me.

    I have this one strong feeling though about the circus origin. Claremont has him 'loving' that part of his life in his memories from the last solo. But I'm not buying that. I think he's delusional and deceiving himself. I think he may actually FEEL he 'loved' it, he may have constructed memories he sincerely believes to be true, he may claim 'Manda is my heart so he can lose a heart so that he can claim and name that pain, and he may claim he has no soul so that he can lose it and name and claim that as well...

    He's so controlled and rehearsed about this that he actually manages to die for Hope with the final words (but maybe he knew it wouldn't be the End even if he 'hoped' it might be) "I believe in you" (he's talking about himself of course and he doesn't really so he doesn't really die for long).

    Also, his accent, his voice, his queer language is of importance and interest to me...so strange and seemingly self-fabricated.
    But that itself is an elusive, jaunting, shadowy and curious conversation all its own.
    Last edited by sungila; 04-05-2018 at 12:43 PM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  8. #2393
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    I would love it, mainly the bold. Kurt said he hates magics, but it seems that he's got a connection, so he should face it. And it would be great if Wanda (European adopted gypsy, just like him) was around.





    True. So true.



    Last time I remember was in Davis' Excalibur. But I'm probably really behind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    The artist that worked with Aaron on the return implied it a little, I guess, but I don't remember the ability really being used in ages. I think Greg Land showed him appearing out of shadows once....lol.
    thanks guys I wish writers would not lose these little characteristics that was established long ago in his powerset. shame it has been so long it was last used.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  9. #2394
    Incredible Member sungila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Dawnland
    Posts
    894

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    thanks guys I wish writers would not lose these little characteristics that was established long ago in his powerset. shame it has been so long it was last used.
    It seems as though Kurt's power-set and his origin story are subject to endless interpretation and/or manipulation. Something about Nightcrawler from his first appearance to today is so utterly different and so immediately knowable...those two polar extremes of presence and him being a trapeze artist (supposedly) and teleporter (or is it inter-dimensional traveler or flesh of shadow) demon or elf or are elves demons and what do golden eyes see anyway...is there a tint or taint to his vision, or does it shine, illuminating as he is sublimating...or, blue is a special color...not really a color but a ebb and flow of elements...a universal solvent...there in the blackest black is blue...and in the death of a coal...that pilot light...that rekindling fire.



    It's hard to judge the creators who miss or drop or indulge in changing aspects of what Nightcrawler is supposed to be. It's sort of what and who he is meant to be, this uncertainty, this vulnerability and strength of an identifiable indelible defiance - and even Cockrum and Claremont had a difficult time sticking to their notes or cannon...it seems that in essence Kurt is knowable partly because he is elusive. He's both there and outside the panel.

    And now he's immortal and yet that's just to say he can't die, but he can physically be killed, just not killed to death, right? So much pain without a net! Falling and falling and falling. Meaning he can suffer endlessly and what does that do to a guy? Does he go numb. Or does this get written away or left out and/or lost?

    He doesn't have a healing factor does he? Or does he? But I mean personally, one for himself, not the one that he has always had for the spirits and hearts of others...
    Last edited by sungila; 04-15-2018 at 12:51 PM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  10. #2395
    Kurtty Fan Slicknickshady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,920

    Default

    I actually made my dad drive through Winzeldorf when we went to Germany! So I could visit it. Lol. I’ll tell you something. It is a very tiny place. Lol. But hey, it wasn’t out of the way!

  11. #2396
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slicknickshady View Post
    I actually made my dad drive through Winzeldorf when we went to Germany! So I could visit it. Lol. I’ll tell you something. It is a very tiny place. Lol. But hey, it wasn’t out of the way!
    Die Jahrmärkte (I think that's the correct plural form) or "Der Jahrmarkt" (singular) travels all over in Germany, as well. It's just a term for a travelling fair or carnival that's in town once a year. It was fun seeing the signs posted up when I lived over there. And yes, it was mainly gypsies running it.

  12. #2397
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Interdimensional
    Posts
    2,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    And now he's immortal and yet that's just to say he can't die, but he can physically be killed, just not killed to death, right? So much pain without a net! Falling and falling and falling. Meaning he can suffer endlessly and what does that do to a guy? Does he go numb. Or does this get written away or left out and/or lost?
    Actually, this situation makes him now the closest person to his best friend: Wolverine. Now Kurt is able to personally comprehend some of Logan's issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    Die Jahrmärkte (I think that's the correct plural form) or "Der Jahrmarkt" (singular) travels all over in Germany, as well. It's just a term for a travelling fair or carnival that's in town once a year. It was fun seeing the signs posted up when I lived over there. And yes, it was mainly gypsies running it.
    Yeah, most of circus are this way in Europe. Or they used to be, at least --now gypsies work mainly on travelling fairs with rides and raffles.

  13. #2398
    Extraordinary Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,034

    Default

    Has he interacted with Hope at all since he came back? I mean he died trying to protect her

  14. #2399
    Astonishing Member WhiteQueenEmmaFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    3,187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Has he interacted with Hope at all since he came back? I mean he died trying to protect her
    They haven't used Hope much at all.


    I'd love if he became the Headmaster of Xaviers. Enough of the "pretty" people being the face of mutants. Not leader of an Xteam mind you...i think the school and the teams should be separate entities.

  15. #2400
    Extraordinary Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,034

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteQueenEmmaFrost View Post
    They haven't used Hope much at all.


    I'd love if he became the Headmaster of Xaviers. Enough of the "pretty" people being the face of mutants. Not leader of an Xteam mind you...i think the school and the teams should be separate entities.
    Has he at least talked about or mentioned her? I didnt read his solo or Amazing X-men where that likely would have been tackled. Was his actual death and the circumstances surrounding it dealt with?

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •