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  1. #31
    Protect the weak. Darth Phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    Pretty sure they've said that before.....

    All I care about is that the X-Titles are as unaffected by that event, which I wont be buying into, as humanly possible.
    The X titles suffer buy being cut out from fellow teams! if you are the only mutant on a non X team you often get more devolpment since Wolverine or Scott hogging the team spotlight.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonmp93 View Post
    Well, its too late for that, this whole thing starts in september; and even through its about the future, unlike every other story about that, this one is about a future that is going to happen.
    Until it isn't anymore. We heard all the BS how Wanda's total genocide was irreversible and then it wasn't.
    "Indeed," Giles said. "This situation calls for calm and resourceful action."
    "That's what you say about every situation!"
    "Yes, because very few situations call for frenzied and uninformed action."

  3. #33

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    I've said this in another thread, but I'll reiterate it here.

    I don't think there is going to be a line wide reboot, I think there is going to be something happen with the 616 and Ultimate universe though as has been rumoured. I also don't think that Hickman is solely on this story, I think it's far too much of a coincidence that Hickman and Bendis are using the same characters in the same month. I think that if Time Runs out gets it's own book which I very much think it will be at least in part written by Bendis as the result of Age of Ultron.

    Ultimately it's going to be about the "incursions" that are happening in the Avengers books as well as the planets colliding (Rogue Planet) stories.

  4. #34

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    I remember Bleeding Cool posting a theory a while back that this event is going to lead to a merging of Ultimate and 616. That makes sense. Ultimate is really going south. One title has been canceled. Another is ending after just 12 issues. And Ultimate Spider-Man alone is not enough to sustain it. All-New X-men is already opening a bridge of sorts to Ultimate. Maybe this will finally cross it. I don't think Marvel can stand to do another relaunch for Ultimate. They've already had 3 in the last 5 years and each time the books sell worse. It would open up some interesting new conflicts, possibly creating an Exiles type situation. But I'm almost positive there will be no reboot. There are too many open stories for Marvel to throw away.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
    Until it isn't anymore. We heard all the BS how Wanda's total genocide was irreversible and then it wasn't.
    Like i already said, we are stuck with this timeline until May 2015.
    Why im okay with AXIS: (so far, up to AXIS #7)

    "Men get arrested. Dogs get put down."
    ― Rorschach, Watchmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    If that's how you wanna play so be it...

    The mutants deserve EVERYTHING that's coming to them, they are dangerous and need to handled with extreme force. They are not human so who cares? They have caused more damage just existing so might as well eradicate them, SHIELD has been right about the X-Men. The problem is they have'nt been forceful enough.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Sundowhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narasinha View Post
    I don't see how the O5 are a retcon... Either it doesn't have any effect (they are sent back with their memory erased or whatever) and there is no retcon. Or the changes are soo big that it could well be a reboot in itself. For example, if Jean, as Phoenix, doesn't repair the M'Kraan Crystal during the Phoenix saga, the universe stop to exist. Or someone else has to become the host of the Phoenix but then all the history may as well be rewriten and the present be whatever the authors want. It's all the fault of the authors anyway : By wanting to make everything signifiant at "universe level", any change to all those events "that redefine everything, change the whole Universe,..." should result in a totaly different (and usualy catastrophic) history. (Or those events are really meaningless... lo)
    They're a retcon because they're the imagery and names of iconic characters with 40 years of "baggage" tossed aside so Bendis can rewrite them how he wants. Do you really think we'll ever see adult Jean or Angel and their complex histories around again as long as the 05 are used? Nope, we basically get AU versions that Marvel/Bendis has decided will be the new version of the characters.

    And yes, the story set up itself is a perfect lead in for a universe reboot.

  7. #37
    Senior Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    So are people going to yell "reboot" everytime we have a crossover event? Is this what it has come to? No they're not rebooting shit.

  8. #38
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    So are people going to yell "reboot" everytime we have a crossover event? Is this what it has come to? No they're not rebooting shit.
    Yes, because reasons. Marvel has no reason to reboot anything, the much maligned sliding timescale as well as the many soft resets make it largely irrevelent and Marvel has never been a fan of massive DC style reboots. Marvel's creative personel have stated this a number of times. Not that that matters as they are all a bunch of liars anyway <rolls eyes>.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    They're a retcon because they're the imagery and names of iconic characters with 40 years of "baggage" tossed aside so Bendis can rewrite them how he wants. Do you really think we'll ever see adult Jean or Angel and their complex histories around again as long as the 05 are used? Nope, we basically get AU versions that Marvel/Bendis has decided will be the new version of the characters.

    And yes, the story set up itself is a perfect lead in for a universe reboot.
    It doesn't necessarily set up for a universe reboot, it just allows for a considerable amount of new stories to be created using those characters and when the book is no longer selling they can return and essentially carry out the 50 years of history and die a couple of times. The fact that Charles Xavier still exists in the past they can do whatever they want. Bendis has made it that the Universe hasn't changed with them in the future, clever from the writing standpoint.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Yes, because reasons. Marvel has no reason to reboot anything, the much maligned sliding timescale as well as the many soft resets make it largely irrevelent and Marvel has never been a fan of massive DC style reboots. Marvel's creative personel have stated this a number of times. Not that that matters as they are all a bunch of liars anyway <rolls eyes>.
    I actually don't believe Marvel are lairs - I do accept though that they are a company that needs to turn a profit.

    Marvel has one reason for rebooting - short term profit - the first few books of any reboot always sell well, since readers want to see how things have changed and what their favourite characters are up to now. Someone could make an argument that Disney might prefer a more streamlined universe, aimed at a younger demographic, but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

    I'm not saying it will be permanent, once the sales go down, they'll most likely retcon it back to something near the original version with some massive crossover event to draw in more sales. Nothing is permanent anymore.

    I'm just more worried about what happens to characters I like while it's all going down.

    My comments from the "The Complex thread", which sums up my views.

    "Do I believe they are trying to change things up? Make the line more Disney friendly? Maybe. Will it align with my tastes? Probable not. Do I lie awake at night worrying about it? No. Marvels done things I haven't liked in the past and I'm still here. At some point they will do something I like again. That is the nature of corporate entertainment. It's always in flux."
    Last edited by Beezzi; 08-23-2014 at 07:03 PM.
    The current X-motto? Too busy fighting each other - to fight for a dream.
    Branches and Roots - My mystery/sci-fi X-fic.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Mikekerr3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Phoenix View Post
    The X titles suffer buy being cut out from fellow teams! if you are the only mutant on a non X team you often get more devolpment since Wolverine or Scott hogging the team spotlight.
    But that development can mean the total destruction of the character. See Rogue for an example

  12. #42
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    I don't actually believe they are liars either, I was trying to be sarcastic there.

    I also dispute any real gain in a reboot. The idea of a reboot is never popular its the events and the relaunches that are important. The reasons for doing a reboot are when the continuity gets too dense for newer readers. Marvel doesnt have that problem because of the sliding timescale and because as a company it doesn't value continuity. Outside of key stories (Dark Phoenix Saga, Death of Gwen Stacy, the Death of Uncle Ben etc.) everything else is up to the whim of the writers to include or not (every appearance of the Phoenix post DPS for AvX).

    Marvel leaves it up to the writers to include what they want and to disregard what they want. Look at how it handles time travel, the mechanics and results are whatever the writer wants subject to the story they are telling. Same with characterization and general themes, each writer can do more or less what they want with the understanding that sooner or later everything will be reset back to the starting point. (Almost everything from Morrison)

    As far as the relaunches, Marvel has embraced the idea of "season arcs" rather than big numbers so coupled with the sliding time scale coupled with the inevitable character resets (One More Day/Heroic Age, Tony Stark literally rebooting his brain etc.).

    Those key story arcs are also one of the big reasons they probably wouldnt want to reboot, because they want to keep them in continuity (and to keep retelling them ad nausiem)

    The closest Marvel probably ever came to a reboot was the possibility of replacing it with the Ultimate line at the height of its popularity, now I just don't see the payoff.

  13. #43
    Marquis de Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jen View Post
    I don't know much about the Avengers. Did they all dress in black after some event? Is that what is going to happen to the X-Men, they will go back to their Quitely black leathers?
    More like their Quitely black and yellow nod to Kirby surely...?
    Amy: Have you ever run away from something because you were scared, or not ready, or just... just because you could?
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    Amy: What happened?
    The Doctor: [gestures to himself] Hello!

  14. #44
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I think there will be a "reboot" of sorts, but I don't think it'll be anything huge.

    We'll be brought into a new continuity but some stuff will stick. I don't see the new MS. MARVEL book going anywhere, for instance. The X-MEN characters will most likely start all over again in their own continuity. Our main MARVEL books, will be in a world a bit similar to the films. I just hope they keep the FANTASTIC FOUR around, even if just in the background for now.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  15. #45
    Senior Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    I don't actually believe they are liars either, I was trying to be sarcastic there.

    I also dispute any real gain in a reboot. The idea of a reboot is never popular its the events and the relaunches that are important. The reasons for doing a reboot are when the continuity gets too dense for newer readers. Marvel doesnt have that problem because of the sliding timescale and because as a company it doesn't value continuity. Outside of key stories (Dark Phoenix Saga, Death of Gwen Stacy, the Death of Uncle Ben etc.) everything else is up to the whim of the writers to include or not (every appearance of the Phoenix post DPS for AvX).

    Marvel leaves it up to the writers to include what they want and to disregard what they want. Look at how it handles time travel, the mechanics and results are whatever the writer wants subject to the story they are telling. Same with characterization and general themes, each writer can do more or less what they want with the understanding that sooner or later everything will be reset back to the starting point. (Almost everything from Morrison)

    As far as the relaunches, Marvel has embraced the idea of "season arcs" rather than big numbers so coupled with the sliding time scale coupled with the inevitable character resets (One More Day/Heroic Age, Tony Stark literally rebooting his brain etc.).

    Those key story arcs are also one of the big reasons they probably wouldnt want to reboot, because they want to keep them in continuity (and to keep retelling them ad nausiem)

    The closest Marvel probably ever came to a reboot was the possibility of replacing it with the Ultimate line at the height of its popularity, now I just don't see the payoff.

    I got the sarcasm - I was trying to make the point that not all supporters of the Marvel reboot theory are crazy conspiracy nuts.I don't believe Marvel's gonna kill off the X-Men for a second. I'm complex free.

    You make some good points. I totally agree that Marvel will gain very little substantially creativity or story-wise if they decide to reboot. Monetary wise it all depends on marketing and PR.

    At the end of the day it all comes down to waiting and seeing what Marvel's planning. You could be right, in the end they might just do a big reboot like event - kinda what they did in House of M - like a mini alternative pocket universe event that'll run for a few months across all books, combining the Ultimate and 616 universes.

    Whatever happens the guys I like are most likely taking a backseat for that event - lower tier characters, like the GenX gang, almost never feature that highly in company wide crossovers. And I totally get that, that's my problem in many ways - if I liked more mainstream characters, I wouldn't have this issue. If a reader is a fan of any of the big name guys, they have very little to complain about whatever happens. Kinda like how decimation only really hurt mutants with niche fan bases.

    It also comes down to why you believe the O5 are being kept around for - is it to manufacture some kind of reboot or is it just because Bendis decided he really wanted to write the O5 guys, but without any of the baggage of their past.
    Last edited by Beezzi; 08-24-2014 at 04:11 AM.
    The current X-motto? Too busy fighting each other - to fight for a dream.
    Branches and Roots - My mystery/sci-fi X-fic.

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