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  1. #12781
    Spectacular Member Omegarogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    I just want her to learn to control her powers the 'right way' for once. No short-cuts via Xavier, practice and self-discovery on how it ticks if she regains control again.



    Did you read the bow when she controlled her powers?

    Xavier did not give control, Xavier explained that she used her power when she was not ready yet, so I can never learn to control it.

    Xavier arranged that, and Rogue was the one who learned to control it alone, she felt that all her skin burned, and Xavier told her that she should learn to control it, that there was no manual, that what happened from there on depended on her .

    And I outline it in a few hours, and then we saw that each time he showed more and more new faculties, and new developments and increases in her powers.


    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::



    That said I do not think Zubb will take away the generic powers, it must be something else.

    But the absorption of Rogue is the strongest power among the X'men literally for what it can do with those powers, its sums the absorption plus the class 100 flight and speed powers, more ionic faculties not explored ..

    Perhaps to have control they must remove some powers because obviously opaquer even more to the rest of the xman, hopefully not happen but you have to be realistic.

  2. #12782
    Spectacular Member Omegarogue's Avatar
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    I do not know what Zub planned with her additional powers, but with such a return of her powers of absorption powers in the short, medium term, with that I agree, and I do not care what he does with his additional brick powers, That they are fun, but they are not the ones that really make Rogue one of the most powerful characters in the marvel universe.


    What they do not understand, the fans of Rogue generic powerset, is that Rogue with control, was increasing their powers, and eventually those who cry so much for the brick powers, will have a Rogue with those powers and more. We all know what one of his natural progressions is. The important and most interesting thing is that she is in control and increasing and exploring her natural powers.
    Last edited by Omegarogue; 11-12-2017 at 07:48 PM.

  3. #12783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegarogue View Post
    Did you read the bow when she controlled her powers?

    Xavier did not give control, Xavier explained that she used her power when she was not ready yet, so I can never learn to control it.

    Xavier arranged that, and Rogue was the one who learned to control it alone, she felt that all her skin burned, and Xavier told her that she should learn to control it, that there was no manual, that what happened from there on depended on her .

    And I outline it in a few hours, and then we saw that each time he showed more and more new faculties, and new developments and increases in her powers.
    but Xavier reintegrated her brain... onle because of that she could control her powers. That's cheap.
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  4. #12784
    Spectacular Member Omegarogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelossik View Post
    but Xavier reintegrated her brain... onle because of that she could control her powers. That's cheap.


    Yes, but its power was designed to have control. and for an unforeseen event she never could not get it.That's the explanation that was given, Rogue used her power before it could be used, and that's why he got stuck in his immature form.


    Xavier only solved that problem, did not give control, the comic says it clear, there is no manual for her to have control, it is her power and she had to learn to control it, and in fact she did it and very fast.

    What could be another explanation? Of course, but it is the one that was given.

    Xavier did not give control, the control seemed to Anna herself, if she is many times better than the original users of the powers she takes, it is not unusual for her to learn to control her own so quickly.

    For example, Cyclops does not know at all what it is to be in control of his powers, right?

    And Rogue when she takes the powers of Scott, she has perfect control of those powers, with more reason, that her powers of absorption learned to control them so fast, Rogue is a being that uses infinite powers, and her body adapts to everything type of skills, and can use them equal or sometimes better than the original users, what we saw with Carey was not absurd.

  5. #12785
    Mighty Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb
    What is "the right way"? If she regains control since she's already had experience with control, wouldn't it be just like once you learn how to ride a bike?
    Understanding.

    Nope. This is more like a telepath implanted how to do something without learning it yourself and it fading over time.

    Rogue didn't learn how to do it herself and I suspect that's part of why she didn't know what was happening with Wonder Man and Scarlet Witch situation. Nothing we saw in Legacy imo showed that she really understood how her power worked better. She could use it more effectively, sure, but that's not really understanding how it functions in essence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegarogue View Post
    Did you read the bow when she controlled her powers?

    Xavier did not give control, Xavier explained that she used her power when she was not ready yet, so I can never learn to control it.

    Xavier arranged that, and Rogue was the one who learned to control it alone, she felt that all her skin burned, and Xavier told her that she should learn to control it, that there was no manual, that what happened from there on depended on her .

    And I outline it in a few hours, and then we saw that each time he showed more and more new faculties, and new developments and increases in her powers.
    Except as soon as that happened there was no road or growth. She kissed Remy right on the lips soon after. How is that not almost complete control? Especially for someone who couldn't touch at all first? Rogue didn't do anything to achieve that growth and thus it feels cheap.

    She didn't practice, she didn't figure out how it worked, she didn't explore or experiment with her powers that we saw. She used it in battle in the some ways we'd seen her use her powers before, besides the fact that she didn't knock them out unconscious.

    There was no sense of self-discovery and getting rid of that process is one of the weakest parts of Legacy for me. It would've been an interesting story to explore and see as Rogue learned why exactly her kiss with Cody caused her to lose control of her powers. I wish that was the route it had taken instead.
    Last edited by ChronoRogue; 11-12-2017 at 11:16 PM.

  6. #12786
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    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/11...ender-not-bad/

    It also has a fair amount of heart to it, with some characters getting some pretty nice moments. There are occasional cliched conflicts between Avengers, but the characters feel like the characters. They’re likable for the most part, and, with a plot this massive, it’s impressive that it manages to remain as character-focused as it does.

    Pepe Larraz manages to give everything a cool texture here, but there are some scenes that look pretty uncanny. Also, I don’t know what the hell is going on with Rogue’s hair. I think she’s absorbed Medusa’s powers. However, much of what Larraz puts out here is some solid work, and those moments can be overlooked (even if Rogue’s hair does get pretty distracting).
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  7. #12787
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post



    Except as soon as that happened there was no road or growth. She kissed Remy right on the lips soon after. How is that not almost complete control? Especially for someone who couldn't touch at all first? Rogue didn't do anything to achieve that growth and thus it feels cheap.

    She didn't practice, she didn't figure out how it worked, she didn't explore or experiment with her powers that we saw. She used it in battle in the some ways we'd seen her use her powers before, besides the fact that she didn't knock them out unconscious.

    There was no sense of self-discovery and getting rid of that process is one of the weakest parts of Legacy for me. It would've been an interesting story to explore and see as Rogue learned why exactly her kiss with Cody caused her to lose control of her powers. I wish that was the route it had taken instead.
    That's the thing that bothered me after Xavier allowed Rogue's powers to progress to their Mature Form: there was no "Break in" period, no learning by trial and error the extent of what the "Mature Form" was or the limits of it. Xavier didn't even stick around to help Rogue through what should have been a "feeling out" period of what "Mature Form" power level was.

  8. #12788
    Spectacular Member Omegarogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    Understanding.

    Nope. This is more like a telepath implanted how to do something without learning it yourself and it fading over time.

    Rogue didn't learn how to do it herself and I suspect that's part of why she didn't know what was happening with Wonder Man and Scarlet Witch situation. Nothing we saw in Legacy imo showed that she really understood how her power worked better. She could use it more effectively, sure, but that's not really understanding how it functions in essence.



    Except as soon as that happened there was no road or growth. She kissed Remy right on the lips soon after. How is that not almost complete control? Especially for someone who couldn't touch at all first? Rogue didn't do anything to achieve that growth and thus it feels cheap.

    She didn't practice, she didn't figure out how it worked, she didn't explore or experiment with her powers that we saw. She used it in battle in the some ways we'd seen her use her powers before, besides the fact that she didn't knock them out unconscious.

    There was no sense of self-discovery and getting rid of that process is one of the weakest parts of Legacy for me. It would've been an interesting story to explore and see as Rogue learned why exactly her kiss with Cody caused her to lose control of her powers. I wish that was the route it had taken instead.

    I think you missed enough of Rogue's progress.

    Xavier did not give her control, he said fix what he could not learn, she only learned, Xavier said it, there is no manual to learn how to use her powers.

    She is better most of the time with the powers of others, and do you really think it would take her a long time to learn from herself? it is not logical, his power had no control because it was impossible for him to learn it because it was damaged, to use it before it was completed, is the explanation that was given.

    I insist Xavier did not give control, she learned it alone.

    Now she is clear that she was discovering by right and wrong.

    1 = First she learned the power on and off of her powers, when she absorbed Trance, to face emplate she left her in a coma to Trance.

    2 = she learned not to leave unconscious to her victims practicing, she learned to be selective, only taking powers, the first time this was seen, it was vs the predator x, then I help absorbing the Legion personalities, to help keep them under control. She herself was practicing there, she said textually that every time she absorbed the energy of one of those pesonalities, the power of Rogue became more focused, and he has thousands of personalities, but when he wanted he could absorb everything to leave the enemies in eat, as he did in AvengersVSXmen

    3 = she was able to absorb emplate and win, by means of an astral non-physical form, and use her absorption without means of the skin, that was a huge advance, besides the only ones that until then could have used their powers when emplate attacked, They were chamber and then Rogue.

    4 = she could scan the personalities, doing better telepathic work than any telepath, be it Xavier emma or rachel, and without harmful effects, and she saw herself when she scanned all the personalities and powers of Legion, she was able to listen to the mental information when the other telepaths mutants could not read legion.

    5 = Again they showed the mental side of their powers, when she could read the psychic information of Rachel in astral form, when neither Emmam Xavier, or the mini Emmas could not, and with this save Rachel Havok and Polaris that were lost in space.

    6 = same as the previous point, she could use her powers of absorption against someone who did not have a physical body, Rachel astral form AgeofX.

    7 = She could permanently remove a power, or the totality of her powers, from another person, and return it to that person when Rogue wanted, she did it many times, and that was impressive, in fact she told Hellion that she was capable of Take away his power and burn them. It must be mentioned that she removed all her powers without robbing her psyche or leaving them in a coma.

    8 = In UA vs the celestial, she removed the powers of all the herores but transformed it into brute force, converting all that energy into force, this is something she did by experiment and it worked.

    9 = vs predator X Rogue used all the powers of the XKids merging them into a single amalgam of power, that he had not done before, although when he had experience in using multiple powers, he never did anything similar.

    10 = Most of the times the powers that it absorbed worked better and with more control in the body of it.

    And do you really believe that she was not practicing, learning, and increasing her powers? because I think you are wrong, because what you saw was a progressive increase in control and an increase in her powers of absorption.

  9. #12789
    Mighty Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    That's the thing that bothered me after Xavier allowed Rogue's powers to progress to their Mature Form: there was no "Break in" period, no learning by trial and error the extent of what the "Mature Form" was or the limits of it. Xavier didn't even stick around to help Rogue through what should have been a "feeling out" period of what "Mature Form" power level was.
    Yea exactly! Where was the struggle? Where was the mistakes? From that point, I get that she messed up a lot when she didn't have any control at all, but there still should still be some when she's learning. She was an expert at her control, never slipping, never absorbing what she didn't want --- from a beginner who couldn't control her power at all to an expert overnight. It was way too fast of a progression.

    I didn't like it and worse, it robbed the emotional weight of her absorption by getting something she's worked on for years immediately imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelossik
    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/11...ender-not-bad/

    It also has a fair amount of heart to it, with some characters getting some pretty nice moments. There are occasional cliched conflicts between Avengers, but the characters feel like the characters. They’re likable for the most part, and, with a plot this massive, it’s impressive that it manages to remain as character-focused as it does.

    Pepe Larraz manages to give everything a cool texture here, but there are some scenes that look pretty uncanny. Also, I don’t know what the hell is going on with Rogue’s hair. I think she’s absorbed Medusa’s powers. However, much of what Larraz puts out here is some solid work, and those moments can be overlooked (even if Rogue’s hair does get pretty distracting).
    Did the reviewer never read Uncanny Avengers while Larraz was penciling? Her hair was always like that. Anyway it sounds mostly positive but more of a set-up issue that doesn't have much action. Oh well, it is weekly anyway.

    Rogue in Card Games!

    Marvel: War of Heroes
    Feb 2013 - Feb 2016
    Card Count: Sound of Mind (*4 star), Girl Power (*5 star), Reunified Rogue (*6 star)



    Marvel Vs System (Upper Deck)
    June 2003- Jan 2009
    Card Count: Energy Drain, Power Absorption, X-Treme Rogue



    X-Men Battle of the Atom
    Jan 2014 - ?
    Card Count: Messiah Saga, Utopia Defender, Fatal Attractions, Onslaught Saga, New Exiles, etc..



    Quote Originally Posted by omegared
    I think you missed enough of Rogue's progress.

    Xavier did not give her control, he said fix what he could not learn, she only learned, Xavier said it, there is no manual to learn how to use her powers.

    She is better most of the time with the powers of others, and do you really think it would take her a long time to learn from herself? it is not logical, his power had no control because it was impossible for him to learn it because it was damaged, to use it before it was completed, is the explanation that was given.

    I insist Xavier did not give control, she learned it alone.

    Now she is clear that she was discovering by right and wrong.
    He did give her control. Overcoming the mental block of what was stopping her from accessing that part of control was something she should've learned herself. Xavier broke it down for her instead of guiding her through it. Thus why Rogue can't fix the issue herself and needs someone else to do it for her again. If she understood how her powers worked she'd be able to identify and address the problem.

    A somewhat sketchy analogy is this; Xavier is a mechanic and Rogue is a race car driver. Xavier fixed the things under the hood and Rogue was finally able to reach a higher potential with her powers (car). But she never understood the things he was doing to the car (powers), so she's unable to fix the problem herself when it breaks down again. In short, Rogue needs to become the mechanic to her own powers.

    As for being better all the time at other powers, eh... that's debatable. She's shown to be more comfortable adapting to powers and at times be more proficient at using them (yes, I know you're referencing the flight she had with Cannonball) but I chalk that up to her offering a new perspective on powers and having experience with different powersets. Counter examples are Northstar beating her when she absorbed his superspeed for example and Rogue also didn't seem to know how to control Wanda's chaotic powers.

    As for your points

    1. I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying. She learned not to knock out a person she absorbs powers from for the first time?Eh, she did it and there wasn't really an explanation for it, that's not learning.

    2. That wasn't shown, she did it and it was just accepted as part of the narrative. The predator x fight was just a mass absorption, separating Legion's personalities was interesting though.

    3. Again, where was the growth? It's a nice feat, and I liked the interaction of her being able to absorb through a separate 'body', but this isn't what I mean when I said I want to watch her learn how to control her powers. We didn't even see her think about this, it just happened.

    4. Not an example of trail and error, but I'll give you that it's a growth? I think it makes sense for Rogue to connect with and be able to understand Legion, considering her power operates on absorbing psyches, but from being able unable to handle very strong personalities to the thousands of Legions? Again, same problem of from zero to sixty.

    5-10. Again, those are feats, that's not what I'm asking for. This seems to be a miscommunication what you think I want to see. Feats of her power is only part of that, it's the end of point of growth not the learning, where is the mistakes? Where is the emotional aspect of struggle? How did she learn she could do this? All topics that are interesting and that weren't explored.

    If your point was she was exploring and learning her powers in battle, then I guess? But that's not what I meant when I said I wanted to see the journey of her learning her powers and really understanding them. And seeing these feats are nice, but it doesn't tell me anything on how she learned them or what struggle or experimentation she did to even think to use them in that way. Besides the Legion stuff which Xavier was directing her toward to help his son.
    Last edited by ChronoRogue; 11-13-2017 at 08:54 AM.

  10. #12790
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    That's the thing that bothered me after Xavier allowed Rogue's powers to progress to their Mature Form: there was no "Break in" period, no learning by trial and error the extent of what the "Mature Form" was or the limits of it. Xavier didn't even stick around to help Rogue through what should have been a "feeling out" period of what "Mature Form" power level was.
    Yeah You are right but we shouldn't forget that Legacy was still very, very good. Or that's my opinion only?
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  11. #12791
    Mighty Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelossik View Post
    Yeah You are right but we shouldn't forget that Legacy was still very, very good. Or that's my opinion only?
    Nah, lots of people liked it. Some Romy/Gambit fans... not so much but I get it, Carey didn't really do him any favors. I liked it over all but it definitely had it's flaws I think even outside of the romance drama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    Nah, lots of people liked it. Some Romy/Gambit fans... not so much but I get it, Carey didn't really do him any favors. I liked it over all but it definitely had it's flaws I think even outside of the romance drama.
    Do You think that Rogue had any run without flaws?
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  13. #12793
    Mighty Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelossik View Post
    Do You think that Rogue had any run without flaws?
    No, but we don't really have much to compare there. She's only had a couple of minis and one ongoing.

    Taking into account Rogue story arcs in general though I'd say CCs plotting and development with her during the 80s was a lot better thought out and had less obvious flaws. Of course, since he created her, there wasn't much precedent.

    I also enjoyed Duggan's Rogue more than Carey's, but the case can be argued UA Vol 3 run was less ambitious in scope in terms of what it was trying to do with Rogue's development. One thing I do think he was strong at besides shaking-up status quo, was that Carey had strong one-liners and humor, which I appreciated in Rogue. She should always have that.
    Last edited by ChronoRogue; 11-13-2017 at 10:39 AM.

  14. #12794
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    We don't really have much to compare there. She's only had a couple of minis and one ongoing.

    Taking into account Rogue story arcs in general though I'd say CCs plotting and development with her during the 80s was a lot better thought out and had less obvious flaws. Of course, since he created her, there wasn't much precedent.

    I also enjoyed Duggan's Rogue more than Carey's, but the case can be argued UA Vol 3 run was less ambitious in scope in terms of what it was trying to do with Rogue's development. One thing I do think he was strong was, was that Carey has strong one-liners and humor, which I appreciated.
    Ok.
    That's also my top3.
    and I can say that I agree with most of Your points.
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  15. #12795
    Mighty Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelossik View Post
    Ok.
    That's also my top3.
    and I can say that I agree with most of Your points.
    Yep. CC, Carey, and Duggan are the one's that come to mind that paid her the most attention recently.

    For worst and most regressive that'd definitely be Milligan. Only thing I liked was that she voted Mystique out of the mansion while everyone else wanted her in. Like er she killed Moira and constantly backstabs people, hello guys? smh

    RR I'm mixed on leaning toward negative, he killed her for 1/3 of the story and made her look bad freqeuntly, but give her a few nice scenes and her brick powers back.

    Most other writers wrote her in niche roles that are mostly forgettable to me but there are couple of nice runs here and there.

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