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Thread: Wrestling WWE

  1. #64396
    Super Moderator Global Honored's Avatar
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    Jericho has a great podcast (Talk is Jericho) episode dedicated to the Montreal Screwjob for its 20th anniversary which goes into a lot of details about the backstage politics, personal and professional rivalry and feuding, the Monday Night Wars effect on it, what that night eventually led into which ironically happened to be great for Vince and Austin and a bad blessing for Bret and WCW, etc.

    Check it out if you get the chance.

  2. #64397
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    No Bret wasn't being unprofessional. He didn't refuse to drop the belt, he refused to drop it to Shawn in Canada, which was well within his right since he had creative control in his contract. He and Vince had to agree on things, essentially Vince was no longer his boss by that point. Also there were other options floated, and there was NOTHING in Bret's history to point to him ever leaving with the belt, absolutely NOTHING!! Not to mention that Shawn was a miserable person back then and a nightmare to work with.

    However, Vince screwing people over WAS well-established even back then. He pulled a screwjob on Wendi Richter back in the day (look up the "Original Screwjob" for further evidence) which led to a decades-long estrangement of Wendi from WWE. And he convince Ric Flair to show up on WWE TV holding another company's title belt. So he's a liar and a hypocrite if he claims that his hands are clean in this area.

    Now could it have been handled better by everyone, sure. But with all of the facts, I'm very much on Bret's side in this and always will be. Vince and Shawn had FAR more sketchy track records (and a habit of changing the narrative when it suits them) than Bret does.
    I can certainly fault Vince for giving Bret or any wrestler for that matter because it creates problems like this said.

    That said, it's still unprofessional IMO to refuse to drop the belt. Especially if you're leaving.

    But in hindsight Bret refusing to job and Vince screwing him worked out for the best, so I suppose it's all good.
    Last edited by XPac; 06-07-2018 at 02:43 PM.

  3. #64398
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Xavier Woods and Kenny Omega are gotta battle in Street Fighter at E3
    https://www.wwe.com/article/xavier-w...street-fighter

  4. #64399
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    RIP MARVEL HEROES 04.06.2013 - 27.11.2017

  5. #64400
    Mighty Member Exciter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Global Honored View Post
    Jericho has a great podcast (Talk is Jericho) episode dedicated to the Montreal Screwjob for its 20th anniversary which goes into a lot of details about the backstage politics, personal and professional rivalry and feuding, the Monday Night Wars effect on it, what that night eventually led into which ironically happened to be great for Vince and Austin and a bad blessing for Bret and WCW, etc.

    Check it out if you get the chance.
    I listened! Amazing what a different world wrestling was back then.
    CBR's Age of Marvels and DC New Dawn June 2018 - Fan Made Solicit Games, make your pulls now! Want back story? Check the Wiki!

  6. #64401
    Mighty Member Kal-El Summers's Avatar
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    A heel turn's not going to make ol' Bobby Snooze interesting.

  7. #64402
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Xavier Woods and Kenny Omega are gotta battle in Street Fighter at E3
    https://www.wwe.com/article/xavier-w...street-fighter
    oh yes. it's going down!!

  8. #64403
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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    oh yes. it's going down!!
    Someone is gonna GET THAT WORK!

  9. #64404
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    I'll always go with the 50/50 deal on Bret Hart being responsible for his own screw job deal and all. Yes as champion on your way out you do the honors. Its being a pro and doing it for the person who gets the belt. Because they get to carry the title next and you leave on that good term.

    Now in Bret's case he did offer to drop the belt earlier to folks beyond Shawn. But at this point Vince as I posted earlier had several things going on...


    - He was at War with WCW and knew Bret had signed a new 3-4 year deal as he told him to do. Was Bischoff in his ear and demanding he bring the WWF World title to Nitro ? If that happens ...WWF is DOA. You can get over Madusa throwing the Women's title in a trash can in 1995. But not the World title of your company. That folks...that is a blow that could cripple your organization that is coming back from near bankruptcy.

    Vince really didn't know that as loyal a company man as Bret was , would he show up that next night and hand over the title ? He didn't know Bret that well to trust to do it. So he was scared and he was put in a position where ...you really can't afford to trust.


    - Vince had a PPV main event title match he was selling and removing the belt before this would have sent a clear signal Bret was leaving. The WWF was playing up the will he actually be leaving the company situation at this point. ECW had added heat because on Hardcore TV during promotion of their 1-900 inside info number , they proclaimed Bret Hart was leaving the WWF.



    - Vince was gonna have to hot shot the title around some more and he already had done it in 1997. Shawn was supposed to drop the belt originally back to Bret at Wrestlemania 13. Instead he lost his smile so they moved the belt around a few times in the spring and all. A tournament deal was not ideal as Vince wanted to settle the situation down and build to Wrestlemania 14.



    In all...it was a unique period and situation then. Bret wasn't totally justified and neither was Vince. Both guys share blame on how things went.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

  10. #64405
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    RIP MARVEL HEROES 04.06.2013 - 27.11.2017

  11. #64406
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve2275 View Post
    Hart and others have brought up how great the athletes are and how solid in ring things are...yet story telling aspects like the "drama" and more is kinda ...lacking for most part. And its true in a way. There used to be stories behind the wrestlers in a push and more. Now its basically ...out comes Roman Reigns and how he's came up short against Lesnar. But beyond that ...you get little from it. Reigns has no story beyond us hearing how he comes up short in matches...you don't see people backstage teasing him or anything over it.

    Compare that to Steve Austin's growing face turn as he started to get TV time backstage and was building it with promos and spots. Instead its...rare we see anything. That "real" aspect of Austin identified with folks. Now its....Roman comes to ring...cuts promo....has match...go to back....cue next guy for same near exact deal.

    That drama/story telling aspect has kinda left the product.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

  12. #64407
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Hart and others have brought up how great the athletes are and how solid in ring things are...yet story telling aspects like the "drama" and more is kinda ...lacking for most part. And its true in a way. There used to be stories behind the wrestlers in a push and more. Now its basically ...out comes Roman Reigns and how he's came up short against Lesnar. But beyond that ...you get little from it. Reigns has no story beyond us hearing how he comes up short in matches...you don't see people backstage teasing him or anything over it.

    Compare that to Steve Austin's growing face turn as he started to get TV time backstage and was building it with promos and spots. Instead its...rare we see anything. That "real" aspect of Austin identified with folks. Now its....Roman comes to ring...cuts promo....has match...go to back....cue next guy for same near exact deal.

    That drama/story telling aspect has kinda left the product.
    I think he was referring to in-ring storytelling more than booking though. In ring psychology.

    And I think Bret can get away with saying that, because arguably he was better at this than anyone else in the history of the company. That said, top to bottom I think the roster today is better than it was when Bret was at his peak.

  13. #64408
    Mighty Member Kal-El Summers's Avatar
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    Bret's not necessarily wrong, though I'd argue it's more the fact that a modern pro wrestling crowd doesn't have the patience to sit through a 20-minute match built around selling a leg injury.

  14. #64409
    Astonishing Member BigLbo's Avatar
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    when it comes to the screwjob i think a lot people always forget that in order to keep bret from going to WCW in 96 vince signed bret to a 20yr contract. vince soon couldn't afford to pay that contract. bret had 2 chances to screw vince and didn't do it, he earned the right to say no to dropping the title to hbk, vince didn't have to do him like that there were plenty of other options.

  15. #64410
    Mighty Member Kal-El Summers's Avatar
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    Vince is a promoter. Promoters are carny as all hell. I don't doubt that Bret wouldn't have taken the title with him, but he really shouldn't have been naive enough to let himself be put in a situation that'd allow the Screwjob to happen in the first place. Especially after being warned about doing so a few times in the days leading up to the SS match. Carnies are gonna carny, so never think you're above getting screwed over by one.

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