View Poll Results: If DC Kills the New 52 - Which Continuity Should Return?

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  • Pre-Crisis

    46 14.24%
  • Post-Crisis

    98 30.34%
  • Neither - Start over!

    79 24.46%
  • Im fine with it the way it is

    100 30.96%
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  1. #1381
    Hair Fetishist Bobias's Avatar
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    I think Animal Man was the true champion of the New 52 as far as stand alone titles go. I truly cannot fathom how that series got cancelled. It had SO MUCH potential and did so much in such a short time. The updated origin of Animal Man and introduction of the Red and the Rot as well as the Swamp Thing crossover were SO GOOD. I was so giddy with it and I cannot believe theyre not capitalizing on Animal Man and his newfound awesomeness. I mean, even without that Animal Man was already made awesome and legendary by Grant Morrison's run, but now they have made him even cooler. Why do they shun my Buddy?!?

    But as far as storylines, Forever Evil might be one of the best DC crossovers ever. It was perfect. Fuckin Luthor, Black Manta, Black Adam, etc working together? Does it get cooler?!

    Green Lantern was probably my next favorite, Im glad it was a direct continuation of the pre-flashpoint stuff because Geoff Johns GL run is personally one of my top runs ever. Along with Morrison's Batman era (specifcally his Batman and Robin with Dick and Damian), obviously also Morrison and Lemire's Animal Man, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing (duh), etc etc.
    Last edited by Bobias; 09-15-2017 at 11:57 PM.

  2. #1382
    More human than human thetrellan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobias View Post
    I think Animal Man was the true champion of the New 52 as far as stand alone titles go. I truly cannot fathom how that series got cancelled. It had SO MUCH potential and did so much in such a short time. The updated origin of Animal Man and introduction of the Red and the Rot as well as the Swamp Thing crossover were SO GOOD. I was so giddy with it and I cannot believe theyre not capitalizing on Animal Man and his newfound awesomeness. I mean, even without that Animal Man was already made awesome and legendary by Grant Morrison's run, but now they have made him even cooler. Why do they shun my Buddy?!?
    As should be obvious by now, DC was shying away from Vertigo type stuff. They canceled AM, ST, and I, Vampire, and made a team to satisfy the Vertigo fans, JL Dark (not in that order), and associated it with the Justice League, of all things. It was a terrible time to be a fan of Vertigo.
    But as far as storylines, Forever Evil might be one of the best DC crossovers ever. It was perfect. Fuckin Luthor, Black Manta, Black Adam, etc working together? Does it get cooler?!

    Green Lantern was probably my next favorite, Im glad it was a direct continuation of the pre-flashpoint stuff because Geoff Johns GL run is personally one of my top runs ever. Along with Morrison's Batman era (specifcally his Batman and Robin with Dick and Damian), obviously also Morrison and Lemire's Animal Man, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing (duh), etc etc.
    I'm with you on everything except FE. FE was a mess. Some writer took the pseudo-SF notion of changing the Moon's orbit way beyond context, and it became a world wide eclipse. Tell me, when was the last time the Moon's shadow could cover the entire planet? It can't. FE was written in such a way as to make it clear. Ultraman needed to constantly make adjustments and stay inside the shadow. Had the writers working on those tie-ins taken the ten to twenty minutes a week it would have taken to at least keep up with the main event, they would have known that.

    The series itself was okay. The tie-ins were the worst thing ever. And guess what happened? The team that was doing JLD- a good book, even though I despise what they were trying to do with the agenda behind it- took the event as a dropping off point. And I could see why. What the guest team did during FE was just awful.

    So what little decent Vertigo material that remained was the soon-to-be-canceled ST and a bastardized version of Hellblazer. Then JLD and Constantine were gone, too. Well, ST outlasted them, I think, but you get my meaning.

    I don't know what happened there, except that maybe management was hell bent on putting Vertigo behind them. Even through creative changes, ST and AM were top notch.

    So I don't regard FE as a good thing. It wasn't great, and it kind of marked the end of an era. I don't even care for Finch's artwork. It seems out of place on superhero books. He would make a great Swamp Thing artist, though.
    Last edited by thetrellan; 09-16-2017 at 12:02 PM.

  3. #1383
    All-New Member Rainbow-Lantern's Avatar
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    Most people may disagree but I'm glad DC decided to create The New 52. I was a Marvel fan for years until I discovered the DC New 52 back in 2014. I tried to read the DC continuity back in 2010 and I did not like the current status back then. There were too much changes to the characters from what I've watched from Justice League Unlimited animation show and didn't know where I could start reading. While I was reading the New 52 which I loved it, I've decided to read some pre-flashpoint stories like Batman and Green Lantern as well as DC best stories like Kingdom Come, The Dark Knight Returns and Green Lantern Rebirth (2004) to get to know the characters better. It was then I understood why dc fans miss the pre-flashpoint continuity. Now I'm up to date with DC Rebirth and I'm happy to say that I'm a huge DC fan even before DC Rebirth was announced.

  4. #1384
    More human than human thetrellan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbow-Lantern View Post
    Most people may disagree but I'm glad DC decided to create The New 52. I was a Marvel fan for years until I discovered the DC New 52 back in 2014. I tried to read the DC continuity back in 2010 and I did not like the current status back then. There were too much changes to the characters from what I've watched from Justice League Unlimited animation show and didn't know where I could start reading. While I was reading the New 52 which I loved it, I've decided to read some pre-flashpoint stories like Batman and Green Lantern as well as DC best stories like Kingdom Come, The Dark Knight Returns and Green Lantern Rebirth (2004) to get to know the characters better. It was then I understood why dc fans miss the pre-flashpoint continuity. Now I'm up to date with DC Rebirth and I'm happy to say that I'm a huge DC fan even before DC Rebirth was announced.
    Well, the cartoons aren't really canon. That said, Hamill made us see the Joker with fresh eyes, and Harley wouldn't be around without BMTAS. If you tried DC after 2009, then Barry being the Flash might have seemed strange, but the Wally from the cartoons was a hybrid of Wally West and Barry Allen. Wally's personality, but Barry's profession. The true Wally West was never a forensic scientist for the CCPD. Barry was.

    I agree that the new 52 was a shot in the proverbial arm for DC. I think many fans weren't willing to give it an honest chance. But I also think DC shouldn't have gone into some of the changes without a plan to use them to give added meaning to what fans were used to. I saw nothing wrong with Clark dating Diana for a time. But Wonder Woman is no replacement for Lois Lane, and six years is more than enough time to have played that relationship out and to get on with things.

    But I don't agree that this new retcon was the right thing to do either. It was no more necessary than undoing John Byrne's antiseptic vision of Krypton just to bring back Zod. It would have been much more interesting to have had these things evolve naturally, given the new status quo.

    Ah, but coulda shoulda woulda. What's done is done.

  5. #1385
    Fantastic Member red winter's Avatar
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    Grayson & World's Finest were my favorite books but I wished DC didn't cancel Stormwatch,Frankenstein and Grifter at all that's where it went down hill. DC should of stuck with Stormwatch's original origin a UN sanction super hero team adding Frankenstein & Hawkman along with Grifter would have helped their books IMHO. Grayson was what the new 52 should have been about in fact if Grayson came out in the begining of the 52 people would have embraced with more enthusiasm
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  6. #1386
    More human than human thetrellan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by red winter View Post
    Grayson & World's Finest were my favorite books but I wished DC didn't cancel Stormwatch,Frankenstein and Grifter at all that's where it went down hill. DC should of stuck with Stormwatch's original origin a UN sanction super hero team adding Frankenstein & Hawkman along with Grifter would have helped their books IMHO. Grayson was what the new 52 should have been about in fact if Grayson came out in the begining of the 52 people would have embraced with more enthusiasm
    Yeah, short term thinking was the hallmark of the new52. Probably comes from creative teams averaging 2 years on any given title. But the sweeping changes of any reboot demand long term planning.

    FYI, should of is a phonetic for should've. I'm as guilty as the next guy for using this, but it's totally incorrect when you think about it.

  7. #1387
    Fantastic Member red winter's Avatar
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    If DC put out Grayson in the middle of the new 52 fans would see the perfect example of how the 52 would have worked out so much better IMHO
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  8. #1388

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    Quote Originally Posted by red winter View Post
    If DC put out Grayson in the middle of the new 52 fans would see the perfect example of how the 52 would have worked out so much better IMHO
    I wouldn’t have minded that, considering Grayson was one of the best New 52 titles.
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  9. #1389
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    You know I found that giving Lois Lane Psychic Powers during the New 52 was a very interesting way to with the character as part of me wishes it remain permanent or make an elseworld story out of it.
    lois.jpg
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    Last edited by brer rabbit; 12-11-2017 at 01:08 PM.

  10. #1390
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    Quote Originally Posted by thetrellan View Post
    But you're not the only one who feels that way about MJ. Older Spider-Man readers seem to prefer Gwen, as near as I can tell.
    You couldn't be more wrong. Most older fans now prefer MJ to Gwen, who is what a select few writers and editors who grew up in the 70s preferred.

    Personally, I think Gerry Conway just threw MJ Peter's way to mess with him.
    MJ existed long before Conway took over the title. Stan Lee intended MJ to be a foil for Peter and Gwen, but he wrote her far too well, she became the life and soul of every panel she appeared in in ways that Gwen could not compete with.

    Conway chose MJ because she was a much more interesting love interest than the blonde-and-bland Gwen, who was as interesting as cardboard.

    MJ went on to become the mother of Peter's children in several continuities, Peter told her he loved her more than he ever loved Gwen, AND they've enjoyed an uninterrupted 31 year marriage in the newspaper comics courtesy of Peter's very co-creator. This is the "doomed romance" you speak of? ROFL, pull the other one.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 04-05-2018 at 10:19 AM.

  11. #1391
    More human than human thetrellan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    You couldn't be more wrong. Most older fans now prefer MJ to Gwen, who is what a select few writers and editors who grew up in the 70s preferred.
    I didn't get this out of a book. I got it from being a fan in the seventies. That is firsthand. By older, I mean approaching retirement age.
    MJ existed long before Conway took over the title.
    That's what I mean exactly. Stan wrote ASM as an action comic with an ongoing romance that fitted his writing style. I am well aware of Conway's reasoning on the matter. But the fact is, once Conway took over the book, Gwen became window dressing. Conway simply didn't know what to do with Gwen, because he couldn't write that kind of romance. Until then, MJ was written as a self-centered flirt who dated Harry for awhile, then ditched him the minute he needed her. This, combined with the strain of his on/off relationship with his father, Norman (GG), led to serious issues, and a drug problem. She kind of left Harry in the lurch.

    You can call that interesting if you want. But had she known Harry well at all, the MJ that refused to leave Peter alone to deal with his grief would have gotten help for Harry, if not before, then at least after the drug problems came to light. I mean, hey, she dated him a damn long time, then just abandoned him. That MJ was kind of a bitch.
    Conway chose MJ because she was a much more interesting love interest than the blonde-and-bland Gwen, who was as interesting as cardboard.
    Because that's the way Conway wrote Gwen. I could call that a failure of him as a writer, but honestly I think he was right to do so. It led to some of the best mind-screws for Peter yet, and allowed Conway to make the title his own.
    MJ went on to become the mother of Peter's children in several continuities, Peter told her he loved her more than he ever loved Gwen, AND they've enjoyed an uninterrupted 31 year marriage in the newspaper comics courtesy of Peter's very co-creator. This is the "doomed romance" you speak of? ROFL, pull the other one.
    No, it's not. I was talking about reading reprints of ASM in Marvel Tales and not seeing they were reprints until about the time MJ was in the hospital, and Peter was reminded of Gwen's death. The "doomed romance" I was talking about was with Gwen, not MJ. Sorry if that wasn't clear, but at least I managed to create the same confusion I felt at the time, even if I failed to convey it. Like that joke about never being in an accident, though causing a few. Lol.
    Last edited by thetrellan; 04-05-2018 at 11:42 AM.

  12. #1392
    U Got Me Str8 Trippin Boo nj06's Avatar
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    I think I'm a little late...but the DCnU 52 is officially over, right? So now are we currently in the Rebirth Era, which is kinda like a mix of the DCnU 52 along with some stuff from pre-reboot?

    Also, was DCYOU a flop?
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  13. #1393
    More human than human thetrellan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nj06 View Post
    I think I'm a little late...but the DCnU 52 is officially over, right? So now are we currently in the Rebirth Era, which is kinda like a mix of the DCnU 52 along with some stuff from pre-reboot?

    Also, was DCYOU a flop?
    I'm a little confused on what has changed and what hasn't myself. Wally's influence has changed little back the way it was, and how much Superman's return to pre-Flashpoint status changes things back must be extensive, but remains uncertain. DCYOU was just the second wave of New52 titles.

  14. #1394
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thetrellan View Post
    I'm a little confused on what has changed and what hasn't myself. Wally's influence has changed little back the way it was, and how much Superman's return to pre-Flashpoint status changes things back must be extensive, but remains uncertain.
    IOW, if it's only a memory of something from a previous continuity, it doesn't really mean anything in regard to the current universe.
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  15. #1395
    Fantastic Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    I just finished reading the entire Detective Comics New 52 run. I really enjoyed Daniel's run on the book to start things off, story and art wise both. It was just fun. Fabok's art was great, but I didn't care for Layman's writing really. Kind of went downhill after that. Manapul's art was OK, not his best in my opinion. I generally like Tomasi's writing, but the end of 'Tec (the Gordon stuff) was pretty meh. They did a better job with it in Batman.

    Batman was obviously the better of the two main Batman titles in New 52 and I appreciated having the same artist and writing for almost the whole thing. You don't see teams having long runs too much anymore.

    After putting together the entire Batman run, I am picking up the other tie-ins for Death of the Family, Court/Night of the Owls, and Robin War to check out.

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