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  1. #5836
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If they think the shirt looks good I think that'd be reason enough. Even then a shirt with a Superman symbol isn't quite the same as a Superman movie or tv show that has to put considerably more effort into being appealing.
    So what, you seriously think someone who gives zero shits about Superman would consider buying a shirt with his symbol on it because it might look good? I mean that's a factor, but if you buy it people are going to assume you are a Superman fan because they will recognize it instantly. People don't dish out money on stuff they only have a passing interest in. You're right that the a TV series or movie would need to back itself up with quality to get people to see it, but the same holds true for the Titans, and their uphill climb is bigger because their names alone are not enough to get the same degree of initial attention. They haven't even been able to consistently sustain a comic series over the past few decades.

    As for Cyborg, what are the numbers that indicate he is popular on his own to sustain a franchise? The book being crappy is an excuse, but what is the non-anecdotal evidence that people would rush to a Cyborg ongoing?
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 01-13-2018 at 01:36 PM.

  2. #5837
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    As for Cyborg, what are the numbers that indicate he is popular on his own to sustain a franchise? The book being crappy is an excuse, but what is the non-anecdotal evidence that people would rush to a Cyborg ongoing?
    The #1 of his first series sold 45K, the Rebrith Issue 64K and the first Regular issue of the post Rebirth series 56K. That are not exactly strong numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Does Sparrow's inability to support two movies by himself mean that people don't like Sparrow, or that the movies weren't very good? I've never seen the last two Pirate movies, but I haven't heard good things about them in general.
    The last Pirates movie was a flop domestically, but still made almost 800 Million world wide (around 150 Million more than Justice League). So he is still a draw but not everywhere.


    But you don't need necessary characters with solos for a strong team book, the JSA ran for quite some time pre flash point, and without any team members with ongoing series. And Suicide Squad has apart from Harley also no no character that can sustain a solo.

    The point where Titans is lacking imo is new stories and villains. The problem with Titans is really that the only big things that are happening are usually the return of some big villain from the old days, like Trigon, the Church of Blood, Mr. Twister (aka the Gargoyle) ... i don't even remember when the Titans had the last time some sort of event with a completely fresh villain or some really crazy space, time travel or multiverse adventure.

  3. #5838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    The big difference between the Big 7 and the Fab 5 is that when it comes to the Big 7 at least 6 of them are popular and sustaining characters, and when it comes to the Fab 5 only 1, maybe 2, can say that. The Fab 5 aren't actually that fabulous. They are not even the most popular incarnation of the Teen Titans or Titans.
    thats a good thing if they were they be like ravn and beast boy 15 forever
    Last edited by Rac7d*; 01-13-2018 at 03:33 PM.

  4. #5839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    The #1 of his first series sold 45K, the Rebrith Issue 64K and the first Regular issue of the post Rebirth series 56K. That are not exactly strong numbers.

    The last Pirates movie was a flop domestically, but still made almost 800 Million world wide (around 150 Million more than Justice League). So he is still a draw but not everywhere.


    But you don't need necessary characters with solos for a strong team book, the JSA ran for quite some time pre flash point, and without any team members with ongoing series. And Suicide Squad has apart from Harley also no no character that can sustain a solo.

    The point where Titans is lacking imo is new stories and villains. The problem with Titans is really that the only big things that are happening are usually the return of some big villain from the old days, like Trigon, the Church of Blood, Mr. Twister (aka the Gargoyle) ... i don't even remember when the Titans had the last time some sort of event with a completely fresh villain or some really crazy space, time travel or multiverse adventure.
    Honestly, I'd prefer if the Titans avoided time travel all together.

  5. #5840
    Spectacular Member L.H.'s Avatar
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    Titans had a purpose when it started: bringing Wally back with his memory of the lost ten years and his advice on the Watchmen.
    That's what Abnett said in an interview: Titans was going to be "central" in unveiling the mystery behind Rebirth. First 6 issues were about that, Lilith red in Kadabra's mind the word "Manhattan" and that's why they went there.
    After #7 this was totally forgotten, together with Kadabra himself.
    I've always thought that it was a kind of stop until Doomsday Clock. Perhaps what's planned with Titans has to wait until DC ends. I don't, it's just my optimism talking.
    So the book had a purpose, a plan (at least the one started in JL #51), the return of a great character, a central position in the DC biggest event, a beloved cast. It wasn't easy to screw up so much, but Abnett did it. It's not just considering them as a bunch of kids, or telling and not showing how deep is their friendship. Issue 19 had an horrible characterization not only of the Titans, but also of the Justice League. Bruce, Diana, even Barry... That's bad writing, nothing less. Titans just need a better writer.

  6. #5841
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    The #1 of his first series sold 45K, the Rebrith Issue 64K and the first Regular issue of the post Rebirth series 56K. That are not exactly strong numbers.
    Exactly. It' easy to say Cyborg is popular and would sustain an ongoing if it met certain criteria. But the actual reality we have is that he was part of an extremely popular run of comics and was later adapted into a very popular cartoon as a main character, but no precedent that he can carry a narrative on his own or that it's something that is in demand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    But you don't need necessary characters with solos for a strong team book, the JSA ran for quite some time pre flash point, and without any team members with ongoing series. And Suicide Squad has apart from Harley also no no character that can sustain a solo.
    Yes, not every character warrants a solo, and some are popular enough to warrant multiple. And that's ok in Cyborg's case, because he was introduced as part of a team and designed for that environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    The point where Titans is lacking imo is new stories and villains. The problem with Titans is really that the only big things that are happening are usually the return of some big villain from the old days, like Trigon, the Church of Blood, Mr. Twister (aka the Gargoyle) ... i don't even remember when the Titans had the last time some sort of event with a completely fresh villain or some really crazy space, time travel or multiverse adventure.
    New stories would be ideal, but we haven't had much luck in any lasting contributions to the Titans lore since the 80s. It's pretty telling that the cartoons and DTVs rehash the NTT run or come up with their own thing rather than go for stuff beyond that point. That's pretty sad. Even then, if they were going to give us a Greatest Hits for the Titans Rebirth run, why did they pick Abra Kadabra and the Fearsome Five over Trigon, Brother Blood or Blackfire? And Mad Mod, Mr. Twister and Ding Dong Daddy in Titans Hunt? If we're stuck with older elements, it might as well be the good stuff.

    Funny you should mention the Multiverse. Seeing as how Wolfman and Perez wrote Crisis, and there were seeds planted for it in NTT, I wouldn't mind the Titans property being used to explore some of Morrison's toys. Have the Titans team up with Captain Carrot and Obama!Superman to fight the Gentry. Or explore Lady Quark's Earth (Earth-6 pre-Crisis, I think 48 now), the home of the Forerunners, home to a dynasty of superheroes bred to stand up to Darkseid. That's an opportunity to introduce a whole slew of new heroes and villains right there.

  7. #5842
    Mighty Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    thats a good thing if they were they be like ravn and beast boy 15 forever
    Why Titans has been awful since Rebirth in a nutshell. How am I supposed to take this character as important heroes with that kind of interactions and dialogue ?

  8. #5843
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    If popularity always led to sales any book based on an MCU property would be in the top 10 every month instead of just their #1.

    Titans and Teen Titans sell better then the current volume of Guardians of the Galaxy.

  9. #5844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Why Titans has been awful since Rebirth in a nutshell. How am I supposed to take this character as important heroes with that kind of interactions and dialogue ?
    Aww. I really liked that scene.

  10. #5845
    Mighty Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Aww. I really liked that scene.
    I could have liked it, if peoples everywhere weren't assuring me that those three are important characters and all. Here, all I see is adults who haven't grown up at all since their early teenage years. I've nothing against staying young in one's mind, but then don't try to push them as those incredible characters. The fact that Dick is the only one I care about in this team doesn't help at all, obviously.

  11. #5846
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    New stories would be ideal, but we haven't had much luck in any lasting contributions to the Titans lore since the 80s. It's pretty telling that the cartoons and DTVs rehash the NTT run or come up with their own thing rather than go for stuff beyond that point. That's pretty sad. Even then, if they were going to give us a Greatest Hits for the Titans Rebirth run, why did they pick Abra Kadabra and the Fearsome Five over Trigon, Brother Blood or Blackfire? And Mad Mod, Mr. Twister and Ding Dong Daddy in Titans Hunt? If we're stuck with older elements, it might as well be the good stuff.
    Trigon and Brother Blood are imo kind of one note, they made one good story but aren't really that reusable. And Blackfire makes imo only sense if you have Starfire on the team.

    Btw. I think that actually Starfire and Raven are (appart from Dick and Wally) the only Titans that are potentially popular enough to carry a book.
    Last edited by Aahz; 01-13-2018 at 04:26 PM.

  12. #5847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I've nothing against staying young in one's mind, but then don't try to push them as those incredible characters.
    You think that if someone is young at heart, they can't be a great and important hero? Gonna have to fundamentally disagree with you there.

  13. #5848
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Trigon and Brother Blood are imo kind of one note, they made one good story but aren't really that reusable. And Blackfire makes imo only sense if you have Starfire on the team.
    They wouldn't even make sense with the current Titans team, although I guess Blood can be stretched to fit any variant on the team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    You think that if someone is young at heart, they can't be a great and important hero? Gonna have to fundamentally disagree with you there.
    As long as they're not a man-child, I'm good .

  14. #5849
    Mighty Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    You think that if someone is young at heart, they can't be a great and important hero? Gonna have to fundamentally disagree with you there.
    Of course they can (I mean, there is a character of this kind whoch keeps pestering my imagination since at least two years, so obviously...), but not in the conventionnal ways of "heirs to the League" kind of way. That kind of character is fundamentally different, with a naïveté which makes them almost more frightening than a grittier character. The problem with the Titans is they aren't really young in that sense, they are more the dumbass teenagers who haven't realized that their could be more than sex jokes, alchohol and giggle in life...

  15. #5850
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    One of my big issues with this team is that they don't act like a modern 21 year olds. They either act like they are 12 or 40, all while looking like something out of the 90's. They are a bunch of out of date dorks, with no self confidence, and who's cool hang out is a old pizza joint.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 01-13-2018 at 04:34 PM.

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