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  1. #8281
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    So, Abnett is in the Celsius talking about Warhammer and he say this: You have to find a balance between respecting the lore of a universe and adding your own elements. What you have in your hands is a box of toys, and your responsibility is not to break them too much so that the next one who comes can also play.

  2. #8282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm guessing by the time we get to close to 19K DC will properly relaunch or revamp the Titan lines.
    It's amazing that the Titans franchise in the comics sucks so much for most of its existence. While it's success outside of comics is unprecedented. It beats the Justice League franchise in animation. So much it became Cartoon Network's SpongeBob with an upcoming movie. If the DC Universe becomes a hit. It becomes the lead show of a whole universe. Not to mention Young Justice which is seen as one of the best animated tv shows this decade.

    Why then can't we get a good Titans franchise run for the past decades? It looks so easy. Why is DC having such a hard time?

  3. #8283
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    Quote Originally Posted by yohyoi View Post
    It's amazing that the Titans franchise in the comics sucks so much for most of its existence. While it's success outside of comics is unprecedented. It beats the Justice League franchise in animation. So much it became Cartoon Network's SpongeBob with an upcoming movie. If the DC Universe becomes a hit. It becomes the lead show of a whole universe. Not to mention Young Justice which is seen as one of the best animated tv shows this decade.

    Why then can't we get a good Titans franchise run for the past decades? It looks so easy. Why is DC having such a hard time?
    The writers don't know what they are doing. Its either Judas Contract rehash,Trigon rehash, Donna's newest identity crisis, the team doesn't trust each other, a Titan dies or a rare good idea that gets executed horribly(New 52).

    At this point, the Titans comics need to go lighter and wackier(not as far as TTGo but enough to change the direction of the franchise).Every time writers try to make things darker it leads to characters getting derailed and stupid storylines. The Titans have more dead members than the Suicide Squad,for crying out loud!!!

    Writers should stop shafting character. There are enough Titans characters to support multiple books with different tones.

  4. #8284
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Doesn't help that New 52 deleted most of the history, which is only gradually getting restored. Hopefully what happened in Flash this week spoilers:
    Impulse is back!
    end of spoilers is the start of the repairs.

  5. #8285
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    I sound like a broken record when I say this but fixing the history isn't necessarily going to magically fix the Titans franchise. It needs far more then that in my opinion. Quality and interesting new stories, actual character development and a writer who is capable of balancing the panel time between characters so that every character gets a chance to shine. That plus fans who are willing to give new ideas and directions a chance instead of merely being satisfied that the book exists at all and with what the standard status quo for the Titans is are what is really needed here IMO. The problem is that fans have shown and continue to show time and time again that all they want is the standard status quo far more than they want any actual change in it.

    Look what happened with Grayson. It was probable the best book the character has had in recent years but a lot of Nightwing fans refused to read it out of the gate because it wasn't the standard status quo for the character. So now we're back too the standard status quo again and so the stories are standard issue ones again.
    Last edited by JasonTodd428; 07-12-2018 at 10:33 AM.
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  6. #8286
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I sound like a broken record when I say this but fixing the history isn't necessarily going to magically fix the Titans franchise. It needs far more then that in my opinion. Quality and interesting new stories, actual character development and a writer who is capable of balancing the panel time between characters so that every character gets a chance to shine. That plus fans who are willing to give new ideas and directions a chance instead of merely being satisfied that the book exists at all and with what the standard status quo for the Titans is are what is really needed here IMO. The problem is that fans have shown and continue to show time and time again that all they want is the standard status quo far more than they want any actual change in it.

    Look what happened with Grayson. It was probable the best book the character has had in recent years but a lot of Nightwing fans refused to read it out of the gate because it wasn't the standard status quo for the character. So now we're back too the standard status quo again and so the stories are standard issue ones again.
    Status quo is a double edged sword.People want status quo to remain because of nostalgia or because they fear that a new status will be executed poorly(in recent years this has happened a lot).

    Grayson was good but some fans had issues with Dick being a secret agent for whatever reason...

  7. #8287
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I sound like a broken record when I say this but fixing the history isn't necessarily going to magically fix the Titans franchise. It needs far more then that in my opinion. Quality and interesting new stories, actual character development and a writer who is capable of balancing the panel time between characters so that every character gets a chance to shine. That plus fans who are willing to give new ideas and directions a chance instead of merely being satisfied that the book exists at all and with what the standard status quo for the Titans is are what is really needed here IMO. The problem is that fans have shown and continue to show time and time again that all they want is the standard status quo far more than they want any actual change in it.
    I think good writing and stories are definitely a must, but I think a better sense of history would definitely help in the case of stuff like "evil clay" Donna or "savage barbarian" Garth.
    Look what happened with Grayson. It was probable the best book the character has had in recent years but a lot of Nightwing fans refused to read it out of the gate because it wasn't the standard status quo for the character. So now we're back too the standard status quo again and so the stories are standard issue ones again.
    I enjoyed both Grayson and the Rebirth Nightwing .

  8. #8288
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think good writing and stories are definitely a must, but I think a better sense of history would definitely help in the case of stuff like "evil clay" Donna or "savage barbarian" Garth.
    I'm not saying that the history is entirely unnecessary only that it won't automatically fix ALL the problems with the franchise, which are extensive IMO and have been for decades. I sometimes feel that fans think that restoring the history is some kind of magic fix for things when it really isn't. Its a part of the problem sure but not the whole of it.

    I enjoyed both Grayson and the Rebirth Nightwing .
    I really enjoyed Grayson much more than any Nightwing book I'd read prior to it. As for Rebirth Nightwing though I really enjoyed bits of it here and there it ultimately became pretty much like every other Nightwing book I'd read in the past. I got bored again because its wasn't really pushing the character in any new direction at all after a point so I dropped it and haven't seen anything interesting enough for me to want to pick it up again.
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  9. #8289
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I'm not saying that the history is entirely unnecessary only that it won't automatically fix ALL the problems with the franchise, which are extensive IMO and have been for decades. I sometimes feel that fans think that restoring the history is some kind of magic fix for things when it really isn't. Its a part of the problem sure but not the whole of it.
    I don't think it would be a magic fix-all but I think as part of the problem it's one issue that needs to be addressed, for various characters.

    Like, you bring up Grayson, but a part of what made that book work as well as it did was that it had Dick in a new status quo and direction while still acknowledging and respecting his history (moreso then even the prior New 52 Nightwing book had).
    I really enjoyed Grayson much more than any Nightwing book I'd read prior to it. As for Rebirth Nightwing though I really enjoyed bits of it here and there it ultimately became pretty much like every other Nightwing book I'd read in the past. I got bored again because its wasn't really pushing the character in any new direction at all after a point so I dropped it and haven't seen anything interesting enough for me to want to pick it up again.
    I enjoy good Dick Grayon stories, so I was fine either way .

  10. #8290
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think it would be a magic fix-all but I think as part of the problem it's one issue that needs to be addressed, for various characters.

    Like, you bring up Grayson, but a part of what made that book work as well as it did was that it had Dick in a new status quo and direction while still acknowledging and respecting his history (moreso then even the prior New 52 Nightwing book had).
    I'd love to see a Titans book that does what Grayson did with telling new stories while still respecting the history of the group actually. I think it would go a long way toward improving things for the franchise but until a writer comes along that wants to do both we're pretty much stuck with usual Titans fare because, unfortunately, that's exactly what the majority of fans seem to want. So long as writers are doing as fans expect them to they are happy to buy but the moment a writer comes along to shake things up the complaining starts as well as the lambasting of the writers who dare to try something different with a character.

    I enjoy good Dick Grayon stories, so I was fine either way .
    I enjoy good stories as well. I just haven't felt that way about recent Nightwing stories is all. I sort of felt like Seeley was not happy about the things editorial suddenly wanted him to do once Dick was back in the blue and black so for me what I read of the run was very uneven.
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  11. #8291
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I'd love to see a Titans book that does what Grayson did with telling new stories while still respecting the history of the group actually. I think it would go a long way toward improving things for the franchise but until a writer comes along that wants to do both we're pretty much stuck with usual Titans fare because, unfortunately, that's exactly what the majority of fans seem to want. So long as writers are doing as fans expect them to they are happy to buy but the moment a writer comes along to shake things up the complaining starts as well as the lambasting of the writers who dare to try something different with a character.
    I think even standard Titans fare would be tolerable with better writing then what we've been getting with the current Titans books, but that's just my opinion.
    I enjoy good stories as well. I just haven't felt that way about recent Nightwing stories is all. I sort of felt like Seeley was not happy about the things editorial suddenly wanted him to do once Dick was back in the blue and black so for me what I read of the run was very uneven.
    I was kind of sad to think Seeley wasn't enjoying the work as much as I was, even if I could understand that some of the story developments weren't of his planning.

  12. #8292
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    Quote Originally Posted by yohyoi View Post
    It's amazing that the Titans franchise in the comics sucks so much for most of its existence. While it's success outside of comics is unprecedented. It beats the Justice League franchise in animation. So much it became Cartoon Network's SpongeBob with an upcoming movie. If the DC Universe becomes a hit. It becomes the lead show of a whole universe. Not to mention Young Justice which is seen as one of the best animated tv shows this decade.

    Why then can't we get a good Titans franchise run for the past decades? It looks so easy. Why is DC having such a hard time?
    You're forgetting that the successful show is not Titans, but Teen Titans, and that they are free to be themselves because they're not tied to a larger universe.

    The writers keep having problem with Titans because they have to fit them between Teen Titans and Justice League in the same universe, both already have their own role and branding as the sidekicks group and the world's best heroes respectively, which leaves Titans the awkward in-between.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 07-12-2018 at 06:09 PM.

  13. #8293
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    Cancel Titans. Nightwing, and Raven got their own solo series right now. Give BB his own, and Donna? I rather she be stuck in limbo before they screw her up even more.

  14. #8294
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    The Teen Titans haven't faired much better then the Titans when it comes to recent comics. It's hard to really say the writers struggle with the Titans, because the Titans have only l had one writer in recent years, and that writer purposely set out to dissect the Titans and tell a story on why they don't work.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 07-13-2018 at 02:44 AM.

  15. #8295
    Mighty Member WhipWhirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    You're forgetting that the successful show is not Titans, but Teen Titans, and that they are free to be themselves because they're not tied to a larger universe.

    The writers keep having problem with Titans because they have to fit them between Teen Titans and Justice League in the same universe, both already have their own role and branding as the sidekicks group and the world's best heroes respectively, which leaves Titans the awkward in-between.
    This is a feature, not a bug.

    Those who watched that show are now mostly young adults. I'd love to see a Titans comic that both fits into DC continuity and allows someone with a little imagination to just pretend its the future of the show.

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