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  1. #75136
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    He was on point, wrote him like he should be.
    I perceive no falsehoods in this post.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

    Mr MajestiK took a short hiatus and the Chaos Bringer was reborn.

  2. #75137
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    You can actually do a whole Savage Six with Killmogner and his crew if you wanted. Baron Macarbe, Venmm, Madam Slay, both Malice's and Erik himself hits the magic number.

    Course they would all need a massive upgrade since T'Challa on paper should be able to beat the cap out of all of them if he's written at 100%.

    Killmomger alone has beaten T'Challa but that never entirely made sense to be. In Rise for example T'Challa loses to him in their first fight even though Eric is a normal guy and T'Challa is enhanced with the suit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis Dad View Post

    That makes no sense at all. Eric /as normal/, should never beat T'Challa. I really like the idea of creating some new villains too though.
    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, it didn't entirely make sense. That said, Killmonger basically had to win since bot losing to T'Challa sort if became his gimmick under Priest and Hudlin.
    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I THINK he was enhanced by the resurrection alter. So his earliest fights he was normal, but his later ones he at least had enhanced strength.

    Course, the vibranium suit still makes the fights somewh at unfair. But it's not like McGregor would know decades later someone would retcons the suit to be vibranium weave in the fights he wrote.
    I need to go back to this for my own sanity before stuff becomes false information:

    1. McGregor's Killmonger's first panel had him break a tree in half with his highly fashionable spike belt. T'challa then swung on a branch with full force and kicked him and Killmonger didn't move. In their second fight in Panther's Rage, T'challa compared fighting Killmonger to fighting his dad as a child ie he is vastly stronger than T'challa. Killmonger is shown to 100% not only T'challa's equal but actually surpassing him in physical abilities. What we don't really know about Killmonger's McGregor is how he ended up enhanced (it is vague). But all panel evidence points to Killmonger being a variation of comic book peak human ala the same class as T'challa and Cap. Also note, Killmonger never "outskilled" T'challa, which is a popular way non-enhanced people beat enhanced. He was just explicitly shown to out power T'challa.



    2. T'challa suit isn't always in the weave. Especially under Hudlin. But also, the fight with Priest at Warriors Fall's had T'challa's habit shredded and torn to bits. Even T'challa's fight with Iron Fist, his suit didn't get that damaged. While not said, it is highly likely T'challa ditched the weave for his tribal fight with Killmonger. When he took the killing blow, he was completely shirtless. Also, despite Rise retconning when the weave first appeared, there is obviously no way McGregor could know that. We just have to assume he changed clothes for Panther's Rage if you want to use headcanon.

    3. Zuri said Killmonger had genetically enhanced strength + whatever the death regiment did to him upon Resurrection. That, once again, points to the fact he was enhanced BEFORE the resurrection altar... the Resurrection altar just changed him more



    4. Rise showed how Killmonger got the best of T'challa... those skull/dead people things he made were killing him. He outprepped and outteched (or mystic?) T'challa initially. shuri used the same things to stop killmonger in the jet.

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  3. #75138
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I need to go back to this for my own sanity before stuff becomes false information:

    1. McGregor's Killmonger's first panel had him break a tree in half with his highly fashionable spike belt. T'challa then swung on a branch with full force and kicked him and Killmonger didn't move. In their second fight in Panther's Rage, T'challa compared fighting Killmonger to fighting his dad as a child ie he is vastly stronger than T'challa. Killmonger is shown to 100% not only T'challa's equal but actually surpassing him in physical abilities. What we don't really know about Killmonger's McGregor is how he ended up enhanced (it is vague). But all panel evidence points to Killmonger being a variation of comic book peak human ala the same class as T'challa and Cap. Also note, Killmonger never "outskilled" T'challa, which is a popular way non-enhanced people beat enhanced. He was just explicitly shown to out power T'challa.



    2. T'challa suit isn't always in the weave. Especially under Hudlin. But also, the fight with Priest at Warriors Fall's had T'challa's habit shredded and torn to bits. Even T'challa's fight with Iron Fist, his suit didn't get that damaged. While not said, it is highly likely T'challa ditched the weave for his tribal fight with Killmonger. When he took the killing blow, he was completely shirtless. Also, despite Rise retconning when the weave first appeared, there is obviously no way McGregor could know that. We just have to assume he changed clothes for Panther's Rage if you want to use headcanon.

    3. Zuri said Killmonger had genetically enhanced strength + whatever the death regiment did to him upon Resurrection. That, once again, points to the fact he was enhanced BEFORE the resurrection altar... the Resurrection altar just changed him more



    4. Rise showed how Killmonger got the best of T'challa... those skull/dead people things he made were killing him. He outprepped and outteched (or mystic?) T'challa initially. shuri used the same things to stop killmonger in the jet.

    Honestly I interpreted what Zuri said to mean that his strength came from the resurrection alter. Strength AND whatever other enhancement.

    But I would certainly agree he seemed frankly stronger than peak even before that. I just assumed it was a kingpin sort of thing. He seems meta, but they never say he is.

    As for the vibranium we've yeah... like I said earlier obviously McGregor would have no idea decades later that someone would retcons him having a vibranium weave. It's an after the fact retcon as it wasn't created yet in meta time. But Rise shows he did have it all along. You frankly have to sort of retcons a lot of fights and just ignore the damage his suit gets back in the day it was damaged a lot. Either that or just imagine he stopped wearing it for whatever reason. It's an after the fact retcons... these things aren't always a perfect fit.
    Last edited by XPac; 06-13-2018 at 05:25 AM.

  4. #75139
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Honestly I interpreted what Zuri said to mean that his strength came from the resurrection alter. Strength AND whatever other enhancement.

    But I would certainly agree he seemed frankly stronger than peak even before that. I just assumed it was a kingpin sort of thing. He seems meta, but they never say he is.

    As for the vibranium we've yeah... like I said earlier obviously McGregor would have no idea decades later that someone would retcons him having a vibranium weave. It's an after the fact retcon as it wasn't created yet in meta time. But Rise shows he did have it all along. You frankly have to sort of retcons a lot of fights and just ignore the damage his suit gets back in the day it was damaged a lot. Either that or just imagine he stopped wearing it for whatever reason. It's an after the fact retcons... these things aren't always a perfect fit.
    I dont' think Zuri would say "Genetically enhanced strength" if he just meanted death regiment stuff... he separated it from the other enhancements.

    Maybe the early vib weave was too itchy and sweaty lol
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  5. #75140
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I dont' think Zuri would say "Genetically enhanced strength" if he just meanted death regiment stuff... he separated it from the other enhancements.

    Maybe the early vib weave was too itchy and sweaty lol
    I think the fact that he said "what ever other enhancements" meant he wasn't even sure he had other enhsncememts though.

    I interpreted him as him saying strength and anything else he might have. Because I think strength is pretty much it really. Probably a degree of enhanced durability and stamina too, though I think that sort of all goes together.

  6. #75141
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    So read Rise 6 finally this morning

    The mini as a whole isn't revolutionary or anythig but I really enjoyed it. It was just fun seeing T'challa do T'challa things. Would it be as fun if his main comic wasn't such a bore? And before that we had 4-5 years of depressing incursion stuff? And before that big gap of nothingness?

    I am not sure lol. I am not sure if I enjoyed it a ton because it was actually enjoyable or just because Black Panther comics have been so dour for what seems like ages.

    The series needed to breath. Part of that is the nature of 6 issue mini and the other part of that was Evan's was more of a fan than a writer and he tried to cram in everything he wanted in his fan brain instead of thinking about the overall structure of the story.

    Fighting Namor is cool. Fighting WS is cool. Talking to Doom is cool. Fighting Jakarra is cool. Nyami, Hunter, Shuri, Killmonger, S'yan, Prowlers... cool! Unfortunately, narratively, probably not a greatest idea in the world for a 6 issue story.

    As someone who spends too much free time on a black panther blog... fun though.

    I really like what he did with S'yan. It simply made sense. I really like his T'challa. I really like his Shuri.

    Killmonger.... not so much. It all happened way to fast. I'm not sure the retcon to his origin was necessary. The "got powers from killing wakandans" was kinda odd. I still really like the issue though I just feel like it could have been better if Killmonger had more panel time. Without completely changing the whole mini, I think the Doom issue should have been taken out, as it was the weakest by far IMO. Use that panel tme for more Killmonger stuff.

    Rise reminded me of Hudlin's run. Not as ground breaking or a masterful stroke of story telling like Priest... just a confident, capable T'challa kicking ass with big comic names showing up.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  7. #75142
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    So read Rise 6 finally this morning

    The mini as a whole isn't revolutionary or anythig but I really enjoyed it. It was just fun seeing T'challa do T'challa things. Would it be as fun if his main comic wasn't such a bore? And before that we had 4-5 years of depressing incursion stuff? And before that big gap of nothingness?

    I am not sure lol. I am not sure if I enjoyed it a ton because it was actually enjoyable or just because Black Panther comics have been so dour for what seems like ages.

    The series needed to breath. Part of that is the nature of 6 issue mini and the other part of that was Evan's was more of a fan than a writer and he tried to cram in everything he wanted in his fan brain instead of thinking about the overall structure of the story.

    Fighting Namor is cool. Fighting WS is cool. Talking to Doom is cool. Fighting Jakarra is cool. Nyami, Hunter, Shuri, Killmonger, S'yan, Prowlers... cool! Unfortunately, narratively, probably not a greatest idea in the world for a 6 issue story.

    As someone who spends too much free time on a black panther blog... fun though.

    I really like what he did with S'yan. It simply made sense. I really like his T'challa. I really like his Shuri.

    Killmonger.... not so much. It all happened way to fast. I'm not sure the retcon to his origin was necessary. The "got powers from killing wakandans" was kinda odd. I still really like the issue though I just feel like it could have been better if Killmonger had more panel time. Without completely changing the whole mini, I think the Doom issue should have been taken out, as it was the weakest by far IMO. Use that panel tme for more Killmonger stuff.

    Rise reminded me of Hudlin's run. Not as ground breaking or a masterful stroke of story telling like Priest... just a confident, capable T'challa kicking ass with big comic names showing up.
    It is sort of weird how relatively small role Killmomger had. Sort of think half the reason this mini even existed might have been to give Killmonger something on the shelves following the movie.

    But I think when Evans wrote this book he sort of had a mental check list of stuff he wanted to see. Namor? Check. Doom? Check. Storm? Check. I think he wrote it from the perspective of a dan boy. So panel time for Erik maybe took a hit.
    Last edited by XPac; 06-13-2018 at 08:06 AM.

  8. #75143
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    this looks like a fun event to take your toddlers too

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  9. #75144
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    So read Rise 6 finally this morning

    The mini as a whole isn't revolutionary or anythig but I really enjoyed it. It was just fun seeing T'challa do T'challa things. Would it be as fun if his main comic wasn't such a bore? And before that we had 4-5 years of depressing incursion stuff? And before that big gap of nothingness?

    I am not sure lol. I am not sure if I enjoyed it a ton because it was actually enjoyable or just because Black Panther comics have been so dour for what seems like ages.

    The series needed to breath. Part of that is the nature of 6 issue mini and the other part of that was Evan's was more of a fan than a writer and he tried to cram in everything he wanted in his fan brain instead of thinking about the overall structure of the story.

    Fighting Namor is cool. Fighting WS is cool. Talking to Doom is cool. Fighting Jakarra is cool. Nyami, Hunter, Shuri, Killmonger, S'yan, Prowlers... cool! Unfortunately, narratively, probably not a greatest idea in the world for a 6 issue story.

    As someone who spends too much free time on a black panther blog... fun though.

    I really like what he did with S'yan. It simply made sense. I really like his T'challa. I really like his Shuri.

    Killmonger.... not so much. It all happened way to fast. I'm not sure the retcon to his origin was necessary. The "got powers from killing wakandans" was kinda odd. I still really like the issue though I just feel like it could have been better if Killmonger had more panel time. Without completely changing the whole mini, I think the Doom issue should have been taken out, as it was the weakest by far IMO. Use that panel tme for more Killmonger stuff.

    Rise reminded me of Hudlin's run. Not as ground breaking or a masterful stroke of story telling like Priest... just a confident, capable T'challa kicking ass with big comic names showing up.
    It's kinda why I think that minis should be 12 issue's and not 6. Sometimes 6 seems like it just rushes everything. I agree, out of all of them the doom issue was the weakest (I think it's because he had them talking and not fighting like what should of happened. Tchalla needed to put hands on doom after all these years) issues 4-6 should of been the kilmonger Arc. I liked how hunter and Erik talked, it had a nice set up moment there, and I like how he combined all the origins into one (I still think he should of had Tchalla Excel Wakanda another 30-50 years ahead due to his innovations) and overall it was a fun mini. Breathe of fresh air from Coates stuff. I still think he should get an ongoing, or at least give him a year long story. He has potential and he says attention to continuity

  10. #75145
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    'In times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers.' - T’Challa


    The J-man

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  11. #75146
    Spectacular Member Mantis Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    this looks like a fun event to take your toddlers too


    Didn't know they even had this kind of stuff out there. The guy in the Black Panther suit had some pretty good moves!

  12. #75147
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis Dad View Post

    Didn't know they even had this kind of stuff out there. The guy in the Black Panther suit had some pretty good moves!
    Marvel Universe LIVE!, is a touring live action arena show featuring Marvel Comics characters by Feld Entertainment.

    https://www.marveluniverselive.com

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Universe_Live!


    Disney does stuff like this now and than part of their genius. Remember they had that Spider-Man play on Broadway before they had to cancel it due to all those injuries.
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  13. #75148
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    this looks like a fun event to take your toddlers too

    Where was this when I was a kid? Live action Spider-Man, Black Panther and Avengers. That's almost too much awesomeness.

    Though sucks Black Cat is still a villain.

  14. #75149
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    I enjoyed most of Rise, but I wasn't feeling this last issue. It felt like a bit of a rushed mess. But I'm sure the biggest reason is these retcons bothered me more than the previous retcons. It's not really reconcilable with what came before and his encounter with Killmonger just isn't anywhere near as intense as Panther's Rage. Nor could it be, I suppose, but I don't see why this had to be the story to tell. For awhile, it seemed to be telling its own story. N'Jadaka factored into that story but he wasn't the villain. By the end, he was supposedly the main threat, but it didn't seem to fit together. It seemed far better to just tell a story set before his initial appearance in the Fantastic Four or, barring that, very early on before we saw a lot of his history in other stories.
    Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

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  15. #75150
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    I enjoyed most of Rise, but I wasn't feeling this last issue. It felt like a bit of a rushed mess. But I'm sure the biggest reason is these retcons bothered me more than the previous retcons. It's not really reconcilable with what came before and his encounter with Killmonger just isn't anywhere near as intense as Panther's Rage. Nor could it be, I suppose, but I don't see why this had to be the story to tell. For awhile, it seemed to be telling its own story. N'Jadaka factored into that story but he wasn't the villain. By the end, he was supposedly the main threat, but it didn't seem to fit together. It seemed far better to just tell a story set before his initial appearance in the Fantastic Four or, barring that, very early on before we saw a lot of his history in other stories.
    I almost got the feel like Killmomger stuff was just sort of tacked on for movie synergy purposes.

    It didn't bother me per say .... but it felt kinda flat. And obviously it was no Panthers Rage.

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