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  1. #53716
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    In literally zero of his solo runs before this has T'challa ever been handed a free win. and the threats he faced were up to his level. The previous writers didn't nerf T'Challa down to their level, the threats were brought up to his. And you Right, T'Challa is the Ultimate chess player, able to be steps ahead at all times. however from the get go Coates said he wasn't going to write that Type of T'Challa (Aka he isn't going to write T'challa in Canon) because Coates is unable to wrap his head around the BP mythos and what it represents. So we have this fake weak ass T'Challa that struggles with Simple issues. the Story in Season 1 was in no way vast and multilayered and complex, it very very simplistic and Writers before Coates would of resolved the story by issue 5, or 6 at most. Coates is not doing any favors for the BP mythos, he is dragging it down and trying to make T'Challa a "Safe" Negro
    I think you can make the arguement that the People and Stane's crew are more powerful than any members of T'CHalla's rogues gallery except Klaw. Truthfully a lot of T'Challa's rogues aren't that powerful. In fact a good half probably don't have powers at all. Similar to Batman and Captain America, T'Challa has a pretty wide range as far as threat level goes. He has history dealing with higher end threats, but he's no strange at all to dealing with more street level opponents with no powers at all as well. But I've always thought that's a good thing for the character as it creates a wider range of potential stories they can plug into.

  2. #53717
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    BP got a lot of Pyrrhic victories during the Priest run. However, it was clear that BP did all he could, and at no point was engaging in PIS. The enemies Priest used were formidable, indeed. The Coates, Mayberry, & Hickman runs all had BP during dumb stuff to allow his foes to stay in the game.

    Priest put BOP through the mental, emotional, & physical ringer, but it was all griping storytelling. The Gary Stu label is just a smokescreen by non-fans.

    In more important news, I continue to save more money without using Geico with the current creative direction.

  3. #53718
    Astonishing Member Rumble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    In literally zero of his solo runs before this has T'challa ever been handed a free win. and the threats he faced were up to his level. The previous writers didn't nerf T'Challa down to their level, the threats were brought up to his. And you Right, T'Challa is the Ultimate chess player, able to be steps ahead at all times. however from the get go Coates said he wasn't going to write that Type of T'Challa (Aka he isn't going to write T'challa in Canon) because Coates is unable to wrap his head around the BP mythos and what it represents. So we have this fake weak ass T'Challa that struggles with Simple issues. the Story in Season 1 was in no way vast and multilayered and complex, it very very simplistic and Writers before Coates would of resolved the story by issue 5, or 6 at most. Coates is not doing any favors for the BP mythos, he is dragging it down and trying to make T'Challa a "Safe" Negro
    Priest T'Challa would've kicked Stane's ass because Stane is the most basic of villains. Iron Man's throwaway trash. Not even top 5 formidable or interesting compared to BP's past villains. Only reason he may be top 10 is because of a lack of overall villains

    They had to dumb T'Challa down to make it even a thing with Stane.

  4. #53719
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    BP got a lot of Pyrrhic victories during the Priest run. However, it was clear that BP did all he could, and at no point was engaging in PIS. The enemies Priest used were formidable, indeed. The Coates, Mayberry, & Hickman runs all had BP during dumb stuff to allow his foes to stay in the game.

    Priest put BOP through the mental, emotional, & physical ringer, but it was all griping storytelling. The Gary Stu label is just a smokescreen by non-fans.

    In more important news, I continue to save more money without using Geico with the current creative direction.
    That's the thing about Gary Stu's... I don't think for solo books that's ever really done long term at least, because for the vast majority of writers that's boring. You don't want to make things easy for the character. Rather you want the exact opposite. You want to put them through the ringer. It's almost always far more fulfilling storytelling wise.

    Morrisons Batman and Priests BP have at times been called Mary Sues and to a degree that's understandable because they're written so uber. But you can equally argue those writers mentally, physically and emotionally wrecked those characters harder or at least as hard as anyone else. So in the end it almost always balances out. They get put on thise ridiculously high pedistols just so they can get knocked just so they can get back up again.

  5. #53720
    Astonishing Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I think you can make the arguement that the People and Stane's crew are more powerful than any members of T'CHalla's rogues gallery except Klaw. Truthfully a lot of T'Challa's rogues aren't that powerful. In fact a good half probably don't have powers at all. Similar to Batman and Captain America, T'Challa has a pretty wide range as far as threat level goes. He has history dealing with higher end threats, but he's no strange at all to dealing with more street level opponents with no powers at all as well. But I've always thought that's a good thing for the character as it creates a wider range of potential stories they can plug into.
    Please Kilmonger's rebellion would walk all over the z list crew. Thats the Thign, this are throw away Trash Villains that T'Challa should be smashing into the ground. they are dynamic challenge the hero to their limits villains. They are throwaways, Garbage to be taken out while T'Challa focuses on the REAL threat.

  6. #53721
    Astonishing Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    BP got a lot of Pyrrhic victories during the Priest run. However, it was clear that BP did all he could, and at no point was engaging in PIS. The enemies Priest used were formidable, indeed. The Coates, Mayberry, & Hickman runs all had BP during dumb stuff to allow his foes to stay in the game.

    Priest put BOP through the mental, emotional, & physical ringer, but it was all griping storytelling. The Gary Stu label is just a smokescreen by non-fans.

    In more important news, I continue to save more money without using Geico with the current creative direction.

    Eh I can really only think of one Pyrrhic victory in Priest run and that was against Kilmonger. The others they were clear cut victories. Maybe the Return of the Dragon Arc was kinda a Pyrrhic victory because he got the Brain aneurysm fighting Danny but he wasn't trying to kill him or anything and it was pretty clear who held the advantage in that fight if it were to the death.

    But every solo may have one of those. Where the Hero doesn't really win or he wins but its not considered a Victory. But coates is taking it to an extreme by having the hero flop around till the very end and win with an ass pull or a very anti climatic showdown

  7. #53722
    Astonishing Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumble View Post
    Priest T'Challa would've kicked Stane's ass because Stane is the most basic of villains. Iron Man's throwaway trash. Not even top 5 formidable or interesting compared to BP's past villains. Only reason he may be top 10 is because of a lack of overall villains

    They had to dumb T'Challa down to make it even a thing with Stane.
    Shit Priest T'Challa would of out prepped the hell out of them, shutting them down quickly with his own tech. Hudlin's Panther would of been Shattering teeth left and right, Hell Gillis panther would of been working those fools solo... Basically the REAL T'Challa would of Soloed Stane and Co

  8. #53723
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Please Kilmonger's rebellion would walk all over the z list crew. Thats the Thign, this are throw away Trash Villains that T'Challa should be smashing into the ground. they are dynamic challenge the hero to their limits villains. They are throwaways, Garbage to be taken out while T'Challa focuses on the REAL threat.
    Again, they are more powerful than any of T'Challa's rogues except Klaw. A good percentage of T'Challa's rogues don't even have powers. And I don't think any are as smart or have the resources that Stane does. Guys like Klaw and Man Ape would probably work for Stane in a given story because he's a rich super villain and Klaw and Man Ape are often just hired muscle.

  9. #53724
    Astonishing Member Rumble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    BP got a lot of Pyrrhic victories during the Priest run. However, it was clear that BP did all he could, and at no point was engaging in PIS. The enemies Priest used were formidable, indeed. The Coates, Mayberry, & Hickman runs all had BP during dumb stuff to allow his foes to stay in the game.

    Priest put BOP through the mental, emotional, & physical ringer, but it was all griping storytelling. The Gary Stu label is just a smokescreen by non-fans.

    In more important news, I continue to save more money without using Geico with the current creative direction.
    Yea, ppl just straight up lying acting like Priest's enemies didn't offer T'Challa complex, not-so-easily solved problems.

    Mephisto, White Wolf, Nakia, Killmonger, etc.

    And even a phyrric victory like the one against Iron Fist was done in such a way that BP wasn't dumbed down to the level of his opponent. It actually made him look even more bad ass

  10. #53725
    Astonishing Member Rumble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Eh I can really only think of one Pyrrhic victory in Priest run and that was against Kilmonger. The others they were clear cut victories. Maybe the Return of the Dragon Arc was kinda a Pyrrhic victory because he got the Brain aneurysm fighting Danny but he wasn't trying to kill him or anything and it was pretty clear who held the advantage in that fight if it were to the death.

    But every solo may have one of those. Where the Hero doesn't really win or he wins but its not considered a Victory. But coates is taking it to an extreme by having the hero flop around till the very end and win with an ass pull or a very anti climatic showdown
    To add to that, I dunno what the opposite of a phyrric victory is, but when Killmonger beat him to become BP.. it was made clear that BP had Erik beat, with the only question being would BP have to kill him since Erik defiantly refused to yield like a good sport, before Everett Ross distracted BP and cost him the fight.

    So even tho he 'lost', you're not really mad at it because it wasn't like he was made to look inferior

  11. #53726
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    New Synopsis for the Black Panther Movie (Along with Thor Ragnarok and Infinty War)

    IMG_7026.jpg

    After the events of Marvel’s Captain America: Civil War, King T’Challa returns home to the reclusive, technologically advanced African nation of Wakanda to serve as his country’s new leader. However, T’Challa soon finds that he is challenged for the throne from factions within his own country. When two foes conspire to destroy Wakanda, the hero known as Black Panther must team up with C.I.A. agent Everett K. Ross and members of the Dora Milaje, Wakanadan special forces, to prevent Wakanda from being dragged into a world war.
    Not much we didn't know or guess already but the World War part is interesting.

  12. #53727
    Astonishing Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Again, they are more powerful than any of T'Challa's rogues except Klaw. A good percentage of T'Challa's rogues don't even have powers. And I don't think any are as smart or have the resources that Stane does. Guys like Klaw and Man Ape would probably work for Stane in a given story because he's a rich super villain and Klaw and Man Ape are often just hired muscle.
    Kilmonger could take them down as he has the power and resources The people and Stane are weak. They are trash villains and it doesn't matter if the rogues have power or not If they are smart. Achebe has no power but he almost grabbed Wakanda. Stane and Co are just trash

  13. #53728
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Kilmonger could take them down as he has the power and resources The people and Stane are weak. They are trash villains and it doesn't matter if the rogues have power or not If they are smart. Achebe has no power but he almost grabbed Wakanda. Stane and Co are just trash
    You're calling Stane trash but again... T'Challas rogues gallery get knocked out in one panel the vast majority of the time they're used in recent years. I'd argue Stane has more credibility than any of T'Challa's rogues except Killmonger. He's a character with near Stark level powers, intelligence, and resources... he's almost certainly not going to get koed in one panel by Spider-Woman or Gold Balls.

    Killmonger I will agree still has some cred, because he's not jobbed out anywhere else and even has a pretty good track record against T'Challa. He's not that powerful per say... he seems only slighty meta human. He's smart and has resources, but I don't think to the same degree that Stane has. But in the least he hasn't been jobbed out, so there's still a chance he can be elevated. Or at least there would be if he wasn't killed off or no reason whatsoever. Hopefully that will be corrected sooner rather than later.

  14. #53729
    Astonishing Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    You're calling Stane trash but again... T'Challas rogues gallery get knocked out in one panel the vast majority of the time they're used in recent years. I'd argue Stane has more credibility than any of T'Challa's rogues except Killmonger. He's a character with near Stark level powers, intelligence, and resources... he's almost certainly not going to get koed in one panel by Spider-Woman or Gold Balls.

    Killmonger I will agree still has some cred, because he's not jobbed out anywhere else and even has a pretty good track record against T'Challa. He's not that powerful per say... he seems only slighty meta human. He's smart and has resources, but I don't think to the same degree that Stane has. But in the least he hasn't been jobbed out, so there's still a chance he can be elevated. Or at least there would be if he wasn't killed off or no reason whatsoever. Hopefully that will be corrected sooner rather than later.
    that Comes from Marvel allowing for Credible villains to get Jobbed when a writer wants to throw warm bodies into their story with little regards to if it makes sense. Man ape would practically never leave Wakanda yet he is in NY for some reason? Klaw has near cosmic level powers yet goldballs is taking him down? Its a lack of respect considering Manape before when T'Challa was with the Avengers was crafty as hell and captured them. Under Priest Pen he was a viable threat. The Avengers cartoon had Klaw fighting the avengers and holding his own Showed man ape to be pretty tough to. Why? Because actually respect the characters. Marvel Comics just has a bad habit of throwing whoever where ever with little regards to if it makes sense or not.

    Wat has Stane done? Faced against iron man. He is a throwaway villain that was so insignificant that when he was revealed in S1 people were going "Uhh Who??" Because he is trash tier. But it fits with Coates narrative because he is knocking T'Challa down to street level and lowering him to struggle against z listers.

  15. #53730
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    that Comes from Marvel allowing for Credible villains to get Jobbed when a writer wants to throw warm bodies into their story with little regards to if it makes sense. Man ape would practically never leave Wakanda yet he is in NY for some reason? Klaw has near cosmic level powers yet goldballs is taking him down? Its a lack of respect considering Manape before when T'Challa was with the Avengers was crafty as hell and captured them. Under Priest Pen he was a viable threat. The Avengers cartoon had Klaw fighting the avengers and holding his own Showed man ape to be pretty tough to. Why? Because actually respect the characters. Marvel Comics just has a bad habit of throwing whoever where ever with little regards to if it makes sense or not.

    Wat has Stane done? Faced against iron man. He is a throwaway villain that was so insignificant that when he was revealed in S1 people were going "Uhh Who??" Because he is trash tier. But it fits with Coates narrative because he is knocking T'Challa down to street level and lowering him to struggle against z listers.
    I agree ... writers shouldn't handle credible characters that way. Which is exactly why Stane shouldn't be written as "trash" that T'Challa easily disgards. Stane has proven himself to be a credible threat to Stark and T'Challa... two of the smartest and resourceful heroes on the planet. He's written as a credible threat, therefore he IS one. He's only as good as the writers make him... and to their credit they're making him credible. Not Doom level credible, but he's proven himself to be a viable challenge to every hero he's faced so far. We're not getting one panel knocks outs like we are with T'Challa's rogues.

    Conversely Klaw and Man Ape are written as trash, therefore they are. I don't like saying that because I'm a fan of Man Ape, but it's hard to argue what we're actually getting on panel. Again, a character is only as good as the writers make him and right now they're not being made to look all that good. And that sucks.

    Villains almost across the board need to be treated better, so that writers and readers like you don't chalk them off as trash. We're getting that better treatment with Stane, and we need to get that treatment for Klaw and Man Ape too. Because one of the guages of a hero is the rogues they face. Essentially what Coates is doing with Stane is what SOMEONE needs to do with Man Ape and Klaw. And it likely needs to be a BP writer because frankly I'm not sure anyone else will bother (though you never know). But sadly Coates doesn't seem to be a fan of Man Ape. Maybe Klaw is a possiblity. Have Klaw give T'CHalla a good run for his money and hopefully people will forget about his one panel defeats to Goldballs and Spider-Woman.
    Last edited by XPac; 05-19-2017 at 11:06 AM.

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